upgrading underground meter/panel combo

[electricguy61]

I have a customer with an existing underground 100 amp Zinsco meter combo.

I was going to install a 200 amp Homeline 20/40 combo and change the main breaker to 100 amp. This doesn't seem to be possible.

Customer doesn't want to pay PG&E to upgrade the underground service at this time, (but may want to in the future) so the main breaker needs to be rated at 100 amps, but changeable to 200 amps in the future. Amy suggestions?

 

[A/A Fuel GTX]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

Install a 200A meter socket, nipple over to your 200A Homeline main breaker panel and instead of landing the service conductors at the 200A main breaker, install a two pole 100A breaker and back feed the buss with that until the larger service lateral is installed. You would not be able to use the combo in a scenario like that however.

 

[fastforward]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

A buddy of mine had this same application.The utility company told him that they don't change
underground feeds to go from 100 to 200.They are sufficient for upgrade.Utility has there own juristiction.I would call pg&e.

 

[Paul B]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

Around here utility will upgrade feed for free as long as you have the panel or disconnect hung and approved. They will charge for the tie in but not replacing the feeder. I had one done recently when adding an addition. The underground feeder was upgraded about 100 hundred feet for free. The tie in to the new panel was $369.00.

 

[inndee500]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

I agree with fastforward

[ February 16, 2006, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: inndee500 ]

 

[tshea]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

Originally posted by m73214:
Install a 200A meter socket, nipple over to your 200A Homeline main breaker panel and instead of landing the service conductors at the 200A main breaker, install a two pole 100A breaker and back feed the buss with that until the larger service lateral is installed. You would not be able to use the combo in a scenario like that however.

Since your 100A breaker is the main, you will need to install a retaining clip on it to keep it from "popping out" of the panel.
I would call your utility, tell them what you are doing. Since it is an upgrade, they may replace the UG for free, then again they may even tell you to go ahead and install the 200Amp service. The utility has a funny way of rating their wire.
A typical OH upgrade here (SEWI)involves replacing a 60Amp fuse box with a 100 or 200Amp circuit breaker service panel along with the proper meter can, riser, etc. The POCO does not come out and replace their overhead triplex on all the upgrades. I have seen the #6 triplex power up 200Amp services with no problems. I suspect in the event of a problem, some crew will be working late one night when it's 20 below and snowing

 

[sfav8r]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

Here in San Francisco PG&E is getting VERY STRANGE. We recently did 2 underground service changes (fuses to breakers)with no increase in service size. PG&E required trenching, installation of 3" conduit and 4/0 al cable provided by them for a measly $2,500. Yes, that is correct, They charged $2,500 to supply and pull 3-1/2 feet of 4/0 al wire and make the power connection. And yes I agree, it is insane.

Their logic, as best as I understand it goes something like this. If you touched the disconnect, even if it is replaced with the same size, you have "upgraded" the service. The minimum size conduit for any service is 3", therefore you must trench and install 3" conduit.

And no, this cost was not figured in either job because it has not been required in the past. On a third job, we are protesting heavily because we didn't even touch the service conductors on the poco side of a pull can. We simply removed the load side conductors from the buss bar and left the poco conductors there...Now they have refused to set the meter until we trench and install 3" conduit. It is rediculous. As I said, we are protesting this and have not heard back.

I don't mean to sound paranoid, just make sure you don't open a can of worms like we did.

By the way, we have only had this issue in San Francisco. Other areas have no such problems. When we mention this to other areas of PG&E they just say "San Francisco has special conearns."

 

[electricguy61]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

Thanks sfav8r:

I agree. PG&E is getting real strange. I got fined $500 for re-installing a meter on an emergency service repair. A tree fell on overhead wires, tearing the old service off the wall (This was up in Boulder Creek in the Santa Cruz Mountains) Called PG&E immediately, put up new service, got inspection, but some guy trying to make a name for himself wrote it up as the customer trying to steal power. I don't touch meters now at all.

I also know they've gotten real bad about upgrades. I called about this service 2 days ago, and was told to leave my number and someone would get back to me in 3 days. Last upgrade I did two weeks ago had to be scheduled 3 weeks in advance for a disconnect.

 

[ramdiesel3500]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

I recently replaced an ancient "range, main, and four" 60A service panel with a new 200A 120/240 service on an old old house. POCO came out and disconnected their overhead feed from the old weatherhead and reconnected it to the new weatherhead. Didn't change the drop cable at all. Looks funny seeing those #3/0 Copper conductors (I know #2/0 would have legal but...)spliced to those #2 aluminum drop cable conductors there at the new weatherhead.

 

[tshea]

Re: upgrading underground meter/panel combo

Originally posted by ramdiesel3500:
Didn't change the drop cable at all. Looks funny seeing those #3/0 Copper conductors (I know #2/0 would have legal but...)spliced to those #2 aluminum drop cable conductors there at the new weatherhead.

Nothing unusual here! POCO figures the HO won't be increasing the load. Besides I think some of the guys at POCO think #2 AL can carry a zillion amps in free air!