Panelboard location - Jersey City codes

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rey-man

rey-man

Senior Member
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New york
Is it allowed to use a closet for panelboard location? The top of the panel is not 6ft. and the closet is not used for anything so nothing to start a fire.

references and links to codes woould be great. Thanks.
 
Depends.....are you talking about a Electrical Closet or a Clothes Closet?

The NEC is clear that the panel can't go in a clothes closet but it was not until the 2008 NEC that we get a BETTER description of a clothes closet.

You have to make sure you have the required clearances....36" Front, 30" Width and make sure you can maintain the dedicated space requirements of 110.26

240.24(D)
(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent
devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily
ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.

In 2008 we finally get a definition :

Clothes Closet. A non-habitable room or space intended
primarily for storage of garments and apparel. [ROP 1-20]

If the closet you are speaking of is not a "Clothes Closet" then it could have the panelboard within it...provided it meets the space clearances and personally if I was inspecting it...it better not have a clothes hanging rod in it...lol

Just my opinions...I am sure someone will not agree...happens alot it seems.

FYI....

110.31 Enclosure for Electrical Installations. Electrical
installations in a vault, room, or closet or in an area surrounded
by a wall, screen, or fence, access to which is
controlled by a lock(s) or other approved means, shall be
considered to be accessible to qualified persons only. The
type of enclosure used in a given case shall be designed and
constructed according to the nature and degree of the hazard(
s) associated with the installation.
For installations other than equipment as described in
110.31(D), a wall, screen, or fence shall be used to enclose
an outdoor electrical installation to deter access by persons
who are not qualified. A fence shall not be less than 2.1 m
(7 ft) in height or a combination of 1.8 m (6 ft) or more of
fence fabric and a 300-mm (1-ft) or more extension utilizing
three or more strands of barbed wire or equivalent. The
distance from the fence to live parts shall be not less than
given in Table 110.31.

This is why it was important to I guess define what a clothes closet is...thanks 2008 NEC
 
There is no "Jersey City" code.

NEC is the bible here in NJ ~ with minor exceptions....this location issue not being of the exceptions.

The only question that needs to answered is:
What type closet is this?
 
Paul,
I don't agree that the code has a blanket restriction on the installation of panels in a clothes closet. The restiction is on installing a panel in the vicinity of easily ignitible material. The clothes closet is just one example of an area that may have easily ignitible material. There are closets that are used to store clothes that are large enough that the panel could be installed where it is not in the vicinity of easily ignitible material.
If the CMP really wants to completely ban the installation of panels in clothes closets, then the wording of the section should be changed to some thing like this:
"Overcurrent devices shall not be located in clothes closets or in the vicinity of easily ignitible material."
Don
 
Ahh..but if we are talking about a clothes closet are you saying they are allowed....I think we are just expressing opinions now on what a clothes closet is...but I see your premise.

(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent
devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily
ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.

Personally I think the creation of the definition clothes closet in the 2008 NEC was for this purpose....it needed to be defined.

I think in that (D) statement the NEC goes out of their way to include the verbiage "clothes closet" and went out of the way to define it as well in the 2008......

Don do you think they had another meaning to adding this verbiage?
 
I would guess that when that verbage was put in the NEC, people still used regular 24" deep clothes closets. I see some closets now that are the size of a small bedroom. The times, they are a changin'.
 
Paul,
I just don't agree that 240.24(D) says what most code users think it says. It probably doesn't even say what the CMP intended it to say. The rule does not prohibit the installation of over current devices in clothes closets...it prohibits them "in the vicinity of easily ignitible material". The addition of a defintion of "clothes closet" does not change this.
I think that the panel intends to prohibit OCPDs in clothes closets, but they haven't go the wording correct...yet.
Don
 
agreed marc....but it begs to bring up this definition:


2008 NEC -
Clothes Closet. A non-habitable room or space intended
primarily for storage of garments and apparel. [ROP 1-20]

So....based on 240.24(D)

(D) Not in Vicinity of Easily Ignitible Material. Overcurrent
devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily
ignitible material, such as in clothes closets.

Would you not agree that their intent was a clothes closet is a clothes closet regardless of size if it is storage for garments and apparel?

Take a clothes closet build a partition that isolates it away from the rest of the closet....is it then removed from being in the clothes closet?

Don...I do see your points....and agree in that if the intent is to keep the OCPD out of the clothes closet that while they added the verbiage in 2008 I smell a proposal as marc said...clothes closets are a changin.....

great points.....which is why I come here mind you;)
 
Dang...I typed all that and could have waited...I agree Don...it needs more clarification..

AND...yes I like this DON verbiage better : "Overcurrent devices shall not be located in clothes closets or in the vicinity of easily ignitible material."
 
radiopet said:
yes I like this DON verbiage better : "Overcurrent devices shall not be located in clothes closets or in the vicinity of easily ignitible material."
Click to expand...

How about..."Overcurrent devices shall not be located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material." and forget about clothes closets?

If there is a large walk in clothes closet it could be a perfect place for a panel, assuming 110.26 clearances are met.

Yes, I know stuff will be placed, stored, under, in front of, and over the panel but that happens in almost any dwelling unit regardless of the panels location.
 
Panels are permitted in garages, sheds or other out buildings which may be used to store gasoline and other flammable liquids. I find those locations to be much more dangerous than a place that has clothes in it.
 
I just did an informal study walking around my house. I can't find a closet that does not have easily ignitable material (except my small mech/elect closet) Seems to me allowing elect. panels in any storage closets is a hazard. This thing is so hard to enforce. Everyone knows damn well that if it was a new house none of that flammable material is going to be there for the final inspection, and if its an old house the electrician will presumably get the stuff moved before inspection. This is a well intentioned article but somehow I wonder if its futile.
 
I'm curious as to why a panel with a screwed down cover is considered to be a danger even with easily ignitable material near it? Has anyone ever seen a covered panel with sparks flying out of it? Flammable gases or vapors in and around the panel maybe, but some clothes near by a danger?
 
rey-man said:
well, it was used as a clothes closet but I can sacrifice to not use it for anything...can i get away with it?
Click to expand...

And there is the real question. Can you get away with it? What if the inspector red tags it and cites 240.24(D)? He or she may not buy the arguement that the present home owner promises not to use it as a clothes closet and hang his ties from the panel door. In that case, you have a problem.
 
ReyMan:
As to 'getting away with it".....IMHO, with or without the door....it's the local AHJ's call.

The 'clothes closet' thing is enforced; and there is no "Jersey City" code, unless the City has a written ordinance regarding this specifically. The NJ UCC uses the NEC (2005) with amendments, ONE of which allows panels to be installed within clothes closets within HUD inspected mobile homes.
 
If this was a replacement for an old panel it's likely that it would be permitted to go right back in the closet under the NJ Rehab code. We're in the process of changing an old FPE panel that is in the bedroom clothes closet. The inspector informed me that the new panel can go right back in place of the old panel since the FPE replacement falls under the Rehab code.
 
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