These people do us no favors

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This thread seems like a good place to post an experience I had the other day. I was settling up with an HO after finishing his project which was a pop top/ small addition and garage addition. While going through his paperwork he showed me another proposal he had received. It was from a handy man service and consisited of a pre printed page with about 12 lines left for the estimate. Those lines were hand written a read "Electrical remodel. $23 per opening. Service change $600- $800. Junction box $350. Garage $225."

I have no idea what size service was indicated and no idea what "junction box means. Further down the page was the directive that the HO was to supply all of the material (incl. wire, boxes, staples etc). Also listed was that "additional work shall be at a rate of $45/hr for handyman work, $55/hr for electrical work and $65/hr for plumbing work."

Luckily this HO saw this clown for what he is, but he gets work from other not so discriminating owners. I am willing to doubt that this guy had both an electrical and plumbers contractor license. It's a shame what some people will do to debase the trades.
 
charlie b said:
Also, do you think it is right for an EC to remove (from a panel) components that have resale value, and leave the scrap, without first getting the customer's permission?
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Most scrap has some resale value. Steel, Copper, Aluminum etc. can be sold. I've had customer's ask me if they could keep the copper and aluminum scrap.
Did you ask if you could keep the breakers?
If the job was T&M did you request that the site be cleaned up and all scrap removed?
The contractor shouldn't have any problem with this if he's being paid T&M.
If he gave you a contract price and didn't specify clean up and removal of all scrap was to be done by others in his contract then I wouldn't give him the final payment until all clean up was done and all scrap removed.
 
Rewire said:
I always remove trash unless told to leave it,I have several scrap metal collectors who haul away anything I set outside my shop.
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Okay, I am going to hammered for this one, but here it is. I have heard several complaints of our local chapter here leaving sites a wreck. First, and foremost, it's nothing against the local chapter, it's to anyone across the board. If you come in and do a job and disregard your mess, only to leave it for the Jr. Millwrights and gophers to pick up, that to me, is very distasteful:mad:

I don't remember who posted where about sweeping, dusting, and mopping, but you've nailed it there. Obviously, I am speaking of industrial compared to comm. and res., but it is how it is. You can have all the masters you want to send to a site, but if you leave trash behind, you have just proved yourself lazy and disrespectful:mad:

Here comes the hammering I suppose. "Well, we aren't paid to clean up!" No, but you are expected to show a very respectable work ethic.
 
76nemo said:
Okay, I am going to hammered for this one, but here it is. I have heard several complaints of our local chapter here leaving sites a wreck. First, and foremost, it's nothing against the local chapter, it's to anyone across the board. If you come in and do a job and disregard your mess, only to leave it for the Jr. Millwrights and gophers to pick up, that to me, is very distasteful:mad:

I don't remember who posted where about sweeping, dusting, and mopping, but you've nailed it there. Obviously, I am speaking of industrial compared to comm. and res., but it is how it is. You can have all the masters you want to send to a site, but if you leave trash behind, you have just proved yourself lazy and disrespectful:mad:

Here comes the hammering I suppose. "Well, we aren't paid to clean up!" No, but you are expected to show a very respectable work ethic.
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You won't get hammered from me. I agree 100%. I can't stand to work in a pig sty, and I try to leave a site as clean as I found it, if not cleaner.
 
JohnJ0906 said:
You won't get hammered from me. I agree 100%. I can't stand to work in a pig sty, and I try to leave a site as clean as I found it, if not cleaner.
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Thanks John. I have met several who think they are above and beyond scrap removal. I'll come onsite to do maintenance work and never leave trash anywhere. Something that has brought me more attention than detail to work, is respect. I have come behind my work with a bottle of Windex, a mop, Pledge, whatever. Watch the jaws drop. When you leave a site cleaner than when you arrived, most people end up picking the phone up real quick upon your leave. I have gone into res for appliance work and removed my shoes at the front door. Talk about a first impression!!!!! The bottom line is the respect to the customer and treat them like family. I, for one, have received more compliments for my tidiness than my theory. People unrelated to the business respect your knowledge. They really respect how you treat their property as well:smile:
 
76nemo said:
Something that has brought me more attention than detail to work, is respect. I have come behind my work with a bottle of Windex, a mop, Pledge, whatever. Watch the jaws drop. When you leave a site cleaner than when you arrived, most people end up picking the phone up real quick upon your leave. I have gone into res for appliance work and removed my shoes at the front door. Talk about a first impression!!!!! The bottom line is the respect to the customer and treat them like family. I, for one, have received more compliments for my tidiness than my theory. People unrelated to the business respect your knowledge. They really respect how you treat their property as well:smile:
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Preach on brother 76! I've been pushing cleanliness to my guys for a long time. Most of them couldn't give a rat's back crack about being tidy. Some just think they're above it. I've seen customer's eyes get big when I vacuum up an area.

Don't think I'll be using windex or a mop though :smile: , but I do get it looking like I never made a mess.

Bottom line: Cleanliness = Professionalism.
 
GilbeSpark said:
Preach on brother 76! I've been pushing cleanliness to my guys for a long time. Most of them couldn't give a rat's back crack about being tidy. Some just think they're above it. I've seen customer's eyes get big when I vacuum up an area.

Don't think I'll be using windex or a mop though :smile: , but I do get it looking like I never made a mess.

Bottom line: Cleanliness = Professionalism.
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You know, it can be quite easy to impress the customer:smile: It's the little things that are overlooked. I have had customers walk in on me with a broom or a mop in hand. They ask me, "What are you doing?" Don't worry Mam/Sir, I am on my time and just cleaning up my trail behind me. All done now, here's the bill. Put on your shoes on the porch or entrance area and get ready to pull out some business cards;) People eat that right up.

Take a minute and think about it. How would you feel if someone treated you in that fashion???
 
76nemo said:
You know, it can be quite easy to impress the customer:smile: It's the little things that are overlooked...Take a minute and think about it. How would you feel if someone treated you in that fashion???
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In service work in homes/offices/etc. image counts for a lot.

Do you have a spare clean shirt/pants to change into during the day if needed? What about hand cleaner and a nail brush?

I knew a guy who would do DI type inspections on his trucks to reinforce the idea of neatness.

Accumulate/save the nicer looking boxes for material to be brought in.
DO NOT ever show them that half torn to shreds packaging the item was really in while banging around on a shelf for the last 3 months.

Use those really very functional divider boxes for hardware.
And buy new ones when they start to show some wear.

(I could go on but you get the idea)
 
BryanMD said:
In service work in homes/offices/etc. image counts for a lot.

Do you have a spare clean shirt/pants to change into during the day if needed? What about hand cleaner and a nail brush?

I knew a guy who would do DI type inspections on his trucks to reinforce the idea of neatness.

Accumulate/save the nicer looking boxes for material to be brought in.
DO NOT ever show them that half torn to shreds packaging the item was really in while banging around on a shelf for the last 3 months.

Use those really very functional divider boxes for hardware.
And buy new ones when they start to show some wear.

(I could go on but you get the idea)
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I am not saying to show yourself come off as classy, I am trying to say to come off with the fashion as the fellow that came in and serviced your house when you couldn't. I expect excellent work in detail, I expect excellent work in peoples skills. When it comes to passing out cards, if you are shallow, don't expect the cards to be passed around in a whirl.

Bottom line: You can get quiet people speaking with your work and ethic. It's where you set yourself aside from others ;)

Above and beyond;)
 
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The guys picked up scrap etc on small job last fall. Owner complained with note that he felt I owed him for the $2.50 worth of scrap copper they removed. I dug it out of the scrap barrel and dropped it off at his house the next time I was in the area. Even at 20 MPG it was going to cost him over $3 in gas to recycle it himself. You just can't make em all happy all the time.
 
it is your business

it is your business

The concern of the OP is a good one. There will always be clowns in all trades and businesses that will under sale themselves. But why worry about them! They will come and go.$35 an hour!! Lawn trimmers make way more than that! It is your business, but it is our trade! Earn what you know you should! Be professional, it maintains the image we want for our trade! Don't forget to raise your rates for the new year!!
 
76nemo said:
Okay, I am going to hammered for this one, but here it is. I have heard several complaints of our local chapter here leaving sites a wreck. First, and foremost, it's nothing against the local chapter, it's to anyone across the board. If you come in and do a job and disregard your mess, only to leave it for the Jr. Millwrights and gophers to pick up, that to me, is very distasteful:mad:

I don't remember who posted where about sweeping, dusting, and mopping, but you've nailed it there. Obviously, I am speaking of industrial compared to comm. and res., but it is how it is. You can have all the masters you want to send to a site, but if you leave trash behind, you have just proved yourself lazy and disrespectful:mad:

Here comes the hammering I suppose. "Well, we aren't paid to clean up!" No, but you are expected to show a very respectable work ethic.
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I suggest that we re-think this a little bit. I agree that somebody needs to clean up the mess. If I am the Owner, then I would NOT want to pay a skilled electrician's rate for performing a different skill that he is not trained for and that skill commands lower wages than his. It is not wise utilization of resources. Of course this can not apply to small, residential jobs, but even there the Owner may chose to have a cleaning crew if it is a multicraft remodeling job.

Use the right tool for the job and use the right person too.
 
weressl said:
I suggest that we re-think this a little bit. I agree that somebody needs to clean up the mess. If I am the Owner, then I would NOT want to pay a skilled electrician's rate for performing a different skill that he is not trained for and that skill commands lower wages than his. It is not wise utilization of resources. Of course this can not apply to small, residential jobs, but even there the Owner may chose to have a cleaning crew if it is a multicraft remodeling job.

Use the right tool for the job and use the right person too.
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I think we are talking about residential and light commercial service work here and training guys to clean up after themselves and represent the company with a professional image. Larger jobs it is always best to have the lower paid guy do the clean up as the skilled tech finishes the job.
 
76nemo said:
"Well, we aren't paid to clean up!"
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I worked with an electrician that told our boss that,just once.
If you know what I mean.
I don't know where he works now.
 
Originally Posted by 76nemo: "Well, we aren't paid to clean up!"

LOL.

I'm fully qualified in the proper operation of shovels and brooms. I've even done mini seminar presentations on occasions.

"Don't ever let me see you sweep a fitting. Bend down and pick it up. Now!"
(one of my favorite lessons)

And if there really is no better use of my time at that moment (face it, it would be rare now for most of us) I have no qualms about doing whatever dirty job that needs doing at any moment.

I still like to clean up and organize material and wire etc if for no other reason than to know what we actually have on hand. Can't stand disorder.

OTOH A good JM stopped me from picking up dropped staples while still doing a rough... said we'll need and use them soon enough. He was right too. Later that day I reached down and picked up that one or two staple I needed *exactly* where it had dropped.
 
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JohnJ0906 said:
You won't get hammered from me. I agree 100%. I can't stand to work in a pig sty, and I try to leave a site as clean as I found it, if not cleaner.
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I agree 200%. I've even left residential rough-in jobsites cleaner.
 
76nemo said:
I have gone into res for appliance work and removed my shoes at the front door. Talk about a first impression!!!!! The bottom line is the respect to the customer and treat them like family.
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If it's been a long day, I show respect for them by keeping my shoes on. ;)

We do, however, wear plastic booties. When we leave, it should look like we were never there.


Edited for terrible sentence structure.
 
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BryanMD said:
I'm fully qualified in the proper operation of shovels and brooms.
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My boss gave me a shovel to put in my truck the other day, but I couldn't figure out where the battery pluged in, so I gave it back!

Just Kidding, I always clean up after myself. Image is everything, the little things are what sets the profesionals apart from the hacks. I always tell my helpers, the customer is paying for a profesional job, make it look like a profesional did the job!
 
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