General Contractor not signing change orders

Has anyone ever dealt with a contractor who did not sign your change orders? Also, has any of you ever not gotten paid because of a situation like this?

Once. I wired a house that did not have the sunroom on the plans, When I started wiring, there was a sunroom on the house.

I didn't wire it until the GC signed a CO. I had the rest of the house wired and inspected, but no CO for the sunroom.

It wasn't until the drywallers started hanging that he relented and signed.

CYA, man, CYA.

If you don't get your change orders signed this eliminates your legal options and forces you to use the illegal ones.

You can still get paid but you may end up in jail because of your collection methods.

It's just better to get the change order signed and this lets the contractor know that you do have legal options. Never try to go to court without the proper paper work, it's a waste of time.

I would not do a thing without the signed change order.

When it is crunch time and it has to get done, he will quickly sign.

When he does sign, hit him with an overtime ticket saying "if you had just signed in the beginning, I wouldnt have to do this.:grin:

we have a hard enough time getting paid for change orders that are signed ! if its not signed by their office , we don't do it !

mtaylor said:

Has anyone ever dealt with a contractor who did not sign your change orders? Also, has any of you ever not gotten paid because of a situation like this?

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We work for a number of different contractors and the key for each is understanding how they want COs handled before you submit the first invoice. Some absolutely require a signed CO (or field PO) or else they won't pay - but they willing sign the COs. Some, especially those we've worked for a while, will allow us to just bill them for the changes - knowing that we'll be fair - and they pay no problem. The last category are the worst: those that say they require signed COs or else they won't pay, but are not willing to sign the COs even if the work has already been performed. In those cases I remind them of our discussion about handling COs before we started the job and ask directly if he intends to pay for the work he requested. If he says yes, I tell him to sign the CO. If he says no, I tell him we will remove the changes (at my cost - part of sorting good customers from bad), continue the job, and never work for the guy again.

I recently received a contract for a project. One of the many points of contention was the paragraph that said, "The Subcontractor shall proceed with the changed work as directed by the Contractor while such claim for adjustment is being determined as provided in the Subcontract documents."

So, IOW, do the work and hope the Contractor approves the C/O.

Get the C/O signed before doing the work.

I have a residential addition that we are currently working on. While reviewing the kitchen cabinet drawings I notice an electric oven. I didn't remember seeing it on the blueprints. Thinking I had missed it I pulled out the blueprints. Nope, no oven.

So I call the owner and ask, "Are you installing an electric oven ?"

"Yes, it's in the drawings."

"It's not in the blueprints but I see it in the kitchen cabinet drawings. I will draw up a C/O and send it to you to sign."

"Well, it needs to get done so just rough it in and we'll work it out later."

"I think it would be best if we agreed to the C/O before we do the work."

This same owner wants me to fix the mess another electrician created in the Master Bath. The electrical as installed is a wreck. So I give him a proposal for the work and he says, "I don't want to spend that much. Can't we just do the minimum ?"

"If I touch it I have to make it safe."

"But I can't spend that much on the bathroom. I'm already over budget."

Needless to say we haven't done any work in the bathroom. The last time we were on the job he asked if we could go over the work to be done in the master bathroom. I told him, "I explained what needed to be done but you haven't agreed to my proposal."

It's still up in the air.

When I worked for another EC we had one GC who instructed his field superintendant's to sign ALL C/O's without any delay. However, the GC also instructed his superintendan't to add the following words under their signature, "My signature above only verifies that the work was performed." This was used to prevent delays in the job BUT more importantly to give him a way out of paying for the C/O's. I learned later from my employer (who was also my brother) that the GC argued at the final meeting that his superintendant's were not authorized to approve C/O's.

Just another typical GC.

mtaylor said:

Has anyone ever dealt with a contractor who did not sign your change orders? Also, has any of you ever not gotten paid because of a situation like this?

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It is simple, don't do the work without a signed change order. It will come back to haunt you later if you do the work without the signed change order. Most of this advice comes from EC's that haven't received payment or received partial payment on legitimate changes. I wish I could remember who said this "You have to learn from others mistakes because you won't live long enough to learn everything you need to know from your own mistakes." Heed the advice from the forum and don't do the work without a signed change order.

If you are doing larger public projects, you may run into a Construction Change Directive. This is the owner's way of having you do the work without a proposal submitted. The owner then will expect that you track the change separately from your other work, time cards need to be kept separate, materials separate from all other material for the project, rentals, tools, etc, all tracked separate. Then you submit a T&M billing with all of this backup in order to get paid. Huge pain! If it isn't tracked separate they have the right to not pay.

mtaylor said:

Has anyone ever dealt with a contractor who did not sign your change orders? Also, has any of you ever not gotten paid because of a situation like this?

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Let me be the first to welcome you to the wide world of electrical contracting.

Yes this has hapend a lot to me.

Read your contract, any changes done without expressed written approval of the GC will be done at your own expense. Why do you think they don't want to sign the CO?

Be careful who signs it too, I have been stiffed more than once because the guy who gladly signed all my changes was not authorized to approve changes even though he said emphatically that he was.

An old trick GCs like to use on big jobs is to move in new supervision and a PM at the tail end of a job. These new guys, the closers, will have no recollection of anything said by the previous guys and will not pay any changes signed by the unauthorized people.

Change Orders

Change Orders

mtaylor said:

Has anyone ever dealt with a contractor who did not sign your change orders? Also, has any of you ever not gotten paid because of a situation like this?

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After a few years of getting caught in the "he said, we said" at the end of a job as to who authorized changes we put a clause in our contract that changes would only be done via a signed change order and would BE BILLED at the time of the change. Each truck had a change order book and the guy in the field could call the office and get a price for the change. The biggest problem I found was, as long as the power panels were not up and working, everyone was your friend but once the power was on, everyone forgot your name. Never wait to bill for a change order, get the billing in right away. If you wait until the end of the project you will most likely never see your money.

A change order or extra will not take place until, the change or extra order is signed by the party listed on the original contract, and we need a signed confermed, in the form of an advanced payment, or signed purchase order, then and only then will the work proceed. No expections! Your in business, your not trading marbles, on the grade school playground, conduct all transactions on a professional level.

Change order's Being signed

Change order's Being signed

I am intersted in contracters who are doing large jobs deal with this. We just recently did a large job 1.2 million electrical. The general has it in there contract that any change orders demanded by owner or engineer become part of the contract and you are liable to do the work.

There was no dispute on change orders during the work and was told to just get the job done. We were also told not to delay job for signitures or they would bring someone else in to do the work.

Then when the job was done I had to actually go down and meet with them about the change orders because they disputed some of them. We ended up droping some small ones to actually get final payment.

Any input?

mtaylor said:

Has anyone ever dealt with a contractor who did not sign your change orders? Also, has any of you ever not gotten paid because of a situation like this?

Click to expand...

That has happened several times in my early dayz. Not until my 'smoke shoveler', accountant and banker got down on me did I awaken.

It required a lot of nerve to tell my customer (the same hand that was feeding me) I WILL NOT PROCEED with this additional work until you 'sign this change order'. Many times you will be under intense scheduling pressure to 'get that work done'. The GC/owner states "I'll give you authorization later", because 'the drywallers are coming tomorrow'. Well, so are those new phone books!

Kiss a large percentage, if not all of your change order's money goodby if you do not have a signed, negotiated change authorization and do you perform that work. Like a poker game, the technology is similar, difference here is it is ALL of YOUR money in the pot.

I do understand that it takes a lot of those 'TUMS for the Tummy' to stand up to them . . .

Best Wishes Everyone

We have some customers that we handle 5 and 6 figure changes verbally. Others we won't spend an extra $100 without them signing first.

I think it is best to document the changes at the time they happen so you can sort them out later, even if your customer wants a single adder at the end of the job.