Health Care NEC 517.13B exception 2

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MWhitt

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If i understand this section correctly, it is permitted to use MC cable in patient care areas for lighting as long as the fixtures are above 71/2 feet. Does anyone have any experience with this application?
 
raider1

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MWhitt said:
If i understand this section correctly, it is permitted to use MC cable in patient care areas for lighting as long as the fixtures are above 71/2 feet. Does anyone have any experience with this application?
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No, Exception#2 to 517.13 allows you not not use an insulated equipment grounding conductor. You still have to use a metallic wiring method that qualifys as an equipment grounding conductor in accordance with 250.118.

Now the new MC cable that qualifys as an equipment grounding conductor would be OK, I believe it is called MCsmart.

Chris
 
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kfenn22

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I have used this for OR and ER rooms. The way I see it, you do not have to have the light fixtures on an GFI/ISO circuit in patient care area if the ceiling is higher then 7.5 feet.... I prefer not to use the MC in hospitals, unless it is a whip...
 
raider1

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kfenn22 said:
I have used this for OR and ER rooms. The way I see it, you do not have to have the light fixtures on an GFI/ISO circuit in patient care area if the ceiling is higher then 7.5 feet.... I prefer not to use the MC in hospitals, unless it is a whip...
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How do you use standard MC in a patient care area as a fixture whip and comply with 517.13? Again exception #2 only permits you to omit the insulated equipment grounding conductor, not the metallic wiring method where the sheath qualifys as an equipment grounding conductor.

Chris
 
M. D.

M. D.

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Not that Chris needs it but these folks also agree with his position.
http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/askMikeForister/upload/MichIAEI12.05.doc

According to Article 517.13, do light fixtures above 7 ? feet require a redundant ground for cable sheath, or does the exception 517.13 (B)(2) allow you to use a non-listed cable for the lights?

Panel Response: The sheath of the cable is required to be listed as equipment grounding return path, however, an insulated copper-grounding conductor is not required.
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roger

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Chris is correct, the only thing exception #2 to 517.13(B) allows is that the insulated conductor is not necessary, this does not change the requirement of 517.13(A), the raceway must be recognized as an EGC per 250.118.

Roger
 
raider1

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This seems to be a common misconception. I have had this discussion quite a few times with local electricians.

Chris
 
roger

roger

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kfenn22 said:
maybe I'm getting my terms mixed up... what is the difference between MC and a Metallic armor cable?
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MC is Metal-Clad Cable see article 330. AC is Armored Cable see 320. Armored cables sheath is recognized as an EGC because of an aluminum runner along it's sheath, standard MC's sheath was not recognized as an EGC.

However, there is a new MC that has a # 10 aluminum runner that has changed this.

Roger
 
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steve66

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If this is on an emergency circuit, what about 517.30(C)(3)(3)(d)??

"Listed flexible metal raceways...where necessary for flexible connection to equipment"

Does everyone agree that a light fixture needs a flexible connection???? Just wondering.
 
raider1

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steve66 said:
If this is on an emergency circuit, what about 517.30(C)(3)(3)(d)??

"Listed flexible metal raceways...where necessary for flexible connection to equipment"

Does everyone agree that a light fixture needs a flexible connection???? Just wondering.
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Yes, but you still must comply with 517.13.

517.30(C)(3) states "Where installed as branch circuits in patient care areas, the installation shall comply with the requirements of 517.13(A) and 517.13(B)."

Also 517.30(C)(3)(3)(d) allows a listed flexible raceway or listed metal sheathed cable for flexible connections. Both AC cable and FMC are listed as suitable for use as equipment grounding conductors.

Chris
 
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kfenn22

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Ok, I understand the difference now, but how do you identify between the two when it is installed, with out opening it up? does ac have the green shielding? How about the MC with the GEC in it? is that Green as well.....
 
C3PO

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Southwire's version of the "new" MC cable is MCap. It has writing on the plastic inside that says "armour is equipment grounding conductor" or something like that.
 
roger

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kfenn22 said:
Ok, I understand the difference now, but how do you identify between the two when it is installed, with out opening it up? does ac have the green shielding? How about the MC with the GEC in it? is that Green as well.....
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Basically, you you would in fact have to open up a box.

The green color is an indicator of HCFC (Health Care Faciity Cable) which is simply AC with an isulated grounding conductor, a hibrid. Note; there is HCFC that is not green.

The Health Care version of the new MC is green.

Roger
 
raider1

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C3PO said:
Southwire's version of the "new" MC cable is MCap. It has writing on the plastic inside that says "armour is equipment grounding conductor" or something like that.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I couldn't remember the name of the new MC cable.

Chris
 
raider1

raider1

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roger said:
Note; there is HCFC that is not green.
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Correct, I had a contractor contact me a while back saying that there were inspectors in my area that were failing jobs due to the HCFC not being a green color.

Chris
 
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