They can be ..or used to select a certain circuit to kill.
My first commercial kitchen
- Thread starter wireperson
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They can be ..or used to select a certain circuit to kill.
They're used to shut off power when the control voltage is applied to them. Once they trip, they must be reset to "On" manually.
Typically used in commercial hood applications such as this. The only they they can't do is turn power on, such as would be required for the exhaust fan in the OPs case.
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
A shunt-trip breaker is basically a remote-controllable breaker. Some will burn out with constant coil voltage applied, and some interrupt the trip current when they trip. If they supply their own power, that works.
I usually see two SPDT micro's in the suppression control box. You cannot make electrical connections inside the box, so be prepared to mount a J-box to connect to the microswitcn wires with a short piece of flex.
Questions:
You mentioned three J-boxes: Ansul, shunt, and gas.
Intake fan volts, amps, and phases? If there's there a contactor, its voltage?
Exhaust fan volts, amps, and phases? Same contactor questions?
Will each fan have its own circuit, or will they share one?
One or two switches for the fans?
Hood lights? Separate circuit, or can they be on
For each electric appliance: volts, amps, phases?
How many 120v receptacles/circuits under the hood?
Will the shunt-trip breakers provided? Must they be shunts, or are contactors your option?
Must the gas shut down when the exhaust-fan is manually shut off?
Will there be a horn/strobe device? Its voltage?
Must there a building alarm system trigger?
How many micro-switches will there be, and what's the contact configs?
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chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
The micro-switch wires must be connected to outside of the control-head box. I usually run a piece of flex to a wall-mounted handy-box or 4" sq. box with two 90-deg fittings, and make the connections to the system conductors there.
Sometimes, I see a J-box close-nippled directly to the side of the control box, but I prefer not having a J-box 'floating' in space. Besides, you still have to get from that box to the wall behind it. I have a pic or two somewhere. Lemme look.
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chris kennedy
Senior Member
- Location
- Miami Fla.
- Occupation
- 60 yr old tool twisting electrician
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
You'll have to check back tomorrow night, then. Sorry.
You work Sundays?
Jerverso
Member
- Location
- Albuquerque, NM
All the Ansel systems I have installed needed to operate as follows in the alarm state all power under hood needs to be off. For City installations that included the hood lights, County it didn't mater. The make up air had to shut off, The exhaust had to come on. Most had two micro switches I could only use one. The fire alarm guys used the other. I never needed to run any electrical to the gas valves they were all mechanical, but I do know that some valves are controlled by electrical solenoids( not common cause i heard way more expensive). Umm.... The fans need to operate or shut down regardless of the position of the every day use switch/es, fire marshal checked both ways.
Last sentence is very important..... the exhaust fan needs to come on whether the cook's on-off switch is turned on or off. If the Ansul discharges at 3AM when the place is closed, the exhaust should still come on, even if the kitchen crew turned it off when they went home.
wireperson
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
did you ever find those pics?
chevyx92
Senior Member
- Location
- VA BCH, VA
This is a typical ansul system control box.
That looks nothing like what I have dealt with....and I have no pictures.
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
That looks like the box that controls the exhaust fan, make-up air, and hood lights (Looks exactly like the ones I have used)
The Ansul box, with the fire suppressant stuff and micro switches is mounted next to it.
FWIW, the ones I did had 2 gas valves - 1 mechanical, to shut off when the manual fire handle was pulled, and 1 electrical - I had to hook that one up to turn the gas off when the exhaust fan was shut off. (Cooks just LOVE relighting those pilots each morning... :grin
- Location
- Massachusetts
That looks to me like a "Hood control panel' not an Ansul box.
Here is a typical Ansul box
chevyx92
Senior Member
- Location
- VA BCH, VA
Of course it is. It's all part of the ansul system, this is what the OP has questions on. I guess most members don't know commercial kitchen hoods with this box like the above statements show. Especially not a cabinet that holds the ansul bottles and micros. :roll:
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Here's 3 pix from one. It's a different control box than I usually see, I guess because it's in a different county, but the two SPSD micro's are consistent.
Pic 1 shows the head, the J-box I mentioned (with the horn-strobe on it, which I generally don't do), the upper EMT which hits the box in Pic 3, and the lower EMT which hits the gas-solenoid reset box.
Note the short piece of flex using two 90-degree connectors, between the control box and the 4" behind the horn/strobe (on an extension box) which I mentioned the other day:
Pic 2 shows just the switches (this was a new kitchen, and the switches had never been wired for or installed) and the solenoid-valve reset box. The switches are in a 2g Wiremold box fed via a 1/2" FMC I snaked in the wall.
Pic 3 shows the box I added that contains the intake and exhaust contactors, two 2p contactors for the four 120v under-hood receptacle ckts, the various connections, and the panel home runs.
The three MC's on the right are the home runs for the four existing 120v receptacle circuits (one 3-wire and two 2-wire) I interrupted, and the corresponding MC's on the left go to the receptacles.
The top cables, left to right, are the exhaust and intake load runs, the suppression system/hood light supply circuit, and the intake and exhaust fan supply cables.
On the bottom, left to right, are the feeds to the solenoid valve and to the hood-light, the snake to the switches (fans on one, lights on the other), and the EMT to the J-box with the horn-strobe.
gadfly56
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
That looks to me like a "Hood control panel' not an Ansul box.
Here is a typical Ansul box
Nice system. How did they get the non-UL compliant hood past the fire subcode?
Larry
Neat install. Way more than what's required in Jersey, but neat. And the reason it looks different is because it's a Pyro-Chem system, not Ansul.
aftershock, Jervesco, 480sparky
Unless it's a local requirement, you don't have to turn the exhaust fan on when the Ansul system trips. All UL300 systems are listed for exhaust on or off.
celtic
I don't much like shunts, unless you take coil power from the hot leg of whatever equipment you're controlling, and even then it's not fool proof. If the wire breaks or is cut, you won't know until the system service tech comes by for his semi-annual inspection. Maybe not then, if he just "rags and tags" it. Contactors are the way to go.
sgr1
"It's a good idea to unhook the fire extinguisher before you turn the power on and test the system."
Please don't touch the suppression system components unless you are an authorized distributor or otherwise trained on hood suppression systems. Clean up is very expensive. If you insist, just remember, "You touch it, you own it."
chris kennedy
Standalone suppression system enclosures are not UL listed as junction boxes. That's why the microswitches have 18" pigtails. For prefabbed systems such as CaptiveAire they supply a box as shown by chevyx92.
Anyone with additional curiosity and time to kill could find a copy of NFPA 17A and NFPA 96.
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