electricblue
Senior Member
- Location
- Largo, Florida
- Occupation
- EC
Is there an EASY way to understand building types for NM use? I've read the annex E and it's not so clear to me. Inspector today wants a letter from the architect......
Is there an easy way to understand building types for NM use?
- Thread starter electricblue
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See 334.10 and 334.12
Elaboration on prior post
Elaboration on prior post
And if those types/conditions specified in those articles mesh with what the architect decides as far as building type and if the AHJ agrees w/ him, its legal.
Elaboration on prior post
And if those types/conditions specified in those articles mesh with what the architect decides as far as building type and if the AHJ agrees w/ him, its legal.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
OP did ask for "easy way" but did not give parameters on what "easy" would mean.
OP did ask for "easy way" but did not give parameters on what "easy" would mean.
I don't think the op really got the answer he was wanting, but there really is no easy answer- it all depends on what type of building the architect says it is and what building/ codes standards the ahj uses.
SparkyHC
Member
- Location
- Southern New Jersey
Use of NM cable in a building
Use of NM cable in a building
Just wanted to point out that 334.10(3) says that "Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction...."
which I believe means that even though a structure was built with steel and concrete typical of Type I and II, if the Architect or Engineer can
determine that the structure "could" have been or would be permitted to have been built as a Type III, IV, and V....then type NM cable
may be permitted.
Use of NM cable in a building
Just wanted to point out that 334.10(3) says that "Other structures permitted to be of Types III, IV, and V construction...."
which I believe means that even though a structure was built with steel and concrete typical of Type I and II, if the Architect or Engineer can
determine that the structure "could" have been or would be permitted to have been built as a Type III, IV, and V....then type NM cable
may be permitted.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
I disagree with this. The Architect determines the building construction type. Once it is classified you are limited to that classification for anything that is allowed in that building type. "structures" means structures other than dwelling units as directed in part (1) and (2).
I can't resist saying that for me the determination is Romex is only allowed in buildings I won't be bidding on.
SparkyHC
Member
- Location
- Southern New Jersey
But if you could....
But if you could....
what if...
what if you decided to build a small "B" use building, say 1000 square feet. You could easily build this structure with Type IV construction and install NM. If of course
for some reason you were worried about losing your investment and decided to build this as a Type II would you still be allowed to install NM cable?
I would argue, Yes, because even though you built this building as a Type II, you were "permitted" to build this with Type IV construction.
Still disagree? (and I do agree with you that if I tried to apply this I would get a letter from an Architect)
But if you could....
what if...
what if you decided to build a small "B" use building, say 1000 square feet. You could easily build this structure with Type IV construction and install NM. If of course
for some reason you were worried about losing your investment and decided to build this as a Type II would you still be allowed to install NM cable?
I would argue, Yes, because even though you built this building as a Type II, you were "permitted" to build this with Type IV construction.
Still disagree? (and I do agree with you that if I tried to apply this I would get a letter from an Architect)
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- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
I concur with sparkyHC, few lol. The decision to make some components of the building higher quality (i.e. more fire resistant) than required by building code should not automatically require more expensive electrical wiring to be used.
The only large hypothetical issue, IMHO, comes if a later owner decides on a building occupancy type that requires Type 1 or 2 construction assuming that the electrical was also done to that higher standard.
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The only large hypothetical issue, IMHO, comes if a later owner decides on a building occupancy type that requires Type 1 or 2 construction assuming that the electrical was also done to that higher standard.
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
But if you were going to upgrade the construction method why not upgrade electrical, HVAC, etc. to sort of match, like you said someday someone else may think it is a fit for some other application then finds out some parts of it are not.
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
I agree with the "why not?" But that does not make it code required.
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packersparky
Senior Member
- Location
- Wisconsin
- Occupation
- Inspector
I agree with this also according to a strict interpretation of the wording. It says what it says.
Strathead
Senior Member
- Location
- Ocala, Florida, USA
- Occupation
- Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Again I do disagree, but let me make it plain I have zero direct knowledge so it is opinion and a general understanding of how codes work. The building construction type is a minimum building standard and the Architect, Structural etc. can specify more stringent requirements for parts or all, but they can't specify less stringent. My supposition is that once the building is classified, ALL of the minimum standards are in effect. I am equating this to something like this... If a building doesn't require fire alarm you don't have to put it in. If you decide to install a fire alarm system, the system has to be installed to the exact same standards as when the building does require a fire alarm system, with the exception that you can elect to only cover say, one area. But that area still has to have all the devices and wiring methods that are code required. If you decide to put smoke detectors in the open office area, then they must be install with the require 30 foot spacing for example.
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