disconnect required??

[M. D.]

I have done similar installations and to tell the truth never gave it much thought but,.. would the structure to the right (post with required receptacle outlet) require a disconnect ?
I think it meets the definition of a "structure" and as such would require one . I also think it is an outbuilding as described in the exception to 225.36.
Next question ;does the snap switch have to be at or near the structure served? I think it does
In the area where I work this would not be tagged as a 225.31 violation.
Has anyone ever been tagged for this?

stories and Opinions Please.

[Pierre C Belarge]

Wow! that is some back yard. In the area I am from, there would probably be about a 1000 homes in that picture.

From what I can see by your photo, the receptacle would be premitted as your disconnecting means.

Nice picture..."a picture is worth a thousand words."

[M. D.]

Thanks for the reply Pierre, I'm not sure the receptacle provides a disconnecting means as to disconnect the ungrounded conductors that supply the structure though

If this structure were a garden shed with a receptacle installed would it not require a disconnect??

[iwire]

I think the NEC requires a disconnecting means.

A while back I installed four 30 amp 208 volt branch circuits to receptacles on a single post at a fair grounds. Once the job was underway and I really started to think about it I think I was in violation of

225.30

225.31

250.32(A)

In the end the inspector felt it was fine as it was.

[Pierre C Belarge]

Originally Posted by iwire

I think the NEC requires a disconnecting means.

A while back I installed four 30 amp 208 volt branch circuits to receptacles on a single post at a fair grounds. Once the job was underway and I really started to think about it I think I was in violation of

225.30

225.31

250.32(A)

In the end the inspector felt it was fine as it was.

225.30
in the case of this post, there seems to be only one circuit per post

225.31
The receptacle could be the disconnecting means

250.32(A)
The exception to (A) would most likely suffice here, meaning no grounding electrode would be required by NEC.

[iwire]

Originally Posted by Pierre C Belarge

225.31
The receptacle could be the disconnecting means

Can it be?

Do you have receptacles rated as service equipment per 225.36?

Do you have any receptacles that meet the requirements of 225.38?

In my opinion the receptacle in the picture can serve as the disconnecting means for the pump but by the letter of the code it can not serve as the disconnecting means for this 'structure'.

[M. D.]

Originally Posted by iwire

I think the NEC requires a disconnecting means.

A while back I installed four 30 amp 208 volt branch circuits to receptacles on a single post at a fair grounds. Once the job was underway and I really started to think about it I think I was in violation of

225.30

225.31

250.32(A)

In the end the inspector felt it was fine as it was.

If one of these receptacles burns a contact or suffers from a loose connection and the "carnie guy" is loosing money ,the under paid , under qualified maintenance guy will try to do it live because time is money and the boss man will want it done NOW!

Bob , It was and is a violation and I think most of us know why .

Who cares how the inspector "felt" he has limited liability . I think this is a great example of why there should be a disconnect.

Were they at least labeled as to where the ocpd might be found???

The purpose of the electrical code is the practical safeguarding of persons and property from the hazards arising from the use of electricity. I don't think a disconnect is an outrageous thing to ask for.

There have been times that a time clock was used as a pool disconnect ... house locked and I have to replace the time clock motor ,... after about the third or second time ,I concluded that the time clock itself requires a disconnect . a little off subject ,.. but not really . most of the injuries to us electricians can be prevented by the flip of a switch, .. about 13 a day show up at burn centers.

[iwire]

Originally Posted by M. D.

Bob , It was and is a violation and I think most of us know why .

I agree and the fact it passed inspection does not remove me from liability.

That said I am not going to lose sleep over it, as you can see the 'accepted trade practice' is not to include disconnects at structures that only are there to support the receptacle.

[RAYMFL]

Read through 680 for Storable Pools. How deep is the pool (see definition of a storable pool)? 680.7, 680.12 for disconnecting means. 680.21(A)(1)&(5) minimum equipment gound and length of cord, 680.22(A)(5) GFCI within 10', 680.22(A)(1,2,3,4) for pump 5' to 10' from pool and 680.26(B) for equipotential bonding.

[iwire]

Originally Posted by RAYMFL

Read through 680.30

That really has nothing to do with M.D.'s question.

It is a matter of the NEC defining that post the receptacle is on as a structure.