SE cable replacemnt

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cdolor

Member
I have a customer that has a severly degraded jacket on their service entrance cable. They have a 60 amp GE panel. It is a summer cottage with no expecations of ever needing more power. I plan to drive new rods, replace the service head, cable, meter box, etc. but I cannot find anything in the code that says I can't leave it a 60 amp service. I did offer to make it a fresh 200 amp service but they would rather save the few dollars and keep it a 60 amp. The panel is in perfect condition.

Any reason I can keep it 60 amps.

Thanks,
Chuck
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I have a customer that has a severly degraded jacket on their service entrance cable. They have a 60 amp GE panel. It is a summer cottage with no expecations of ever needing more power. I plan to drive new rods, replace the service head, cable, meter box, etc. but I cannot find anything in the code that says I can't leave it a 60 amp service. I did offer to make it a fresh 200 amp service but they would rather save the few dollars and keep it a 60 amp. The panel is in perfect condition.

Any reason I can keep it 60 amps.

Thanks,
Chuck

I would say that if it has complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons it is a dwelling and thus has to be at least 100 amps.

225.39

230.79
 
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jumper

Senior Member
230.42(B) Specific Installations. In addition to the requirements
of 230.42(A), the minimum ampacity for ungrounded conductors
for specific installations shall not be less than the
rating of the service disconnecting means specified in
230.79(A) through (D).

230.79(C) One-Family Dwellings. For a one-family dwelling,
the service disconnecting means shall have a rating of not
less than 100 amperes, 3-wire.
 

satcom

Senior Member
I have a customer that has a severly degraded jacket on their service entrance cable. They have a 60 amp GE panel. It is a summer cottage with no expecations of ever needing more power. I plan to drive new rods, replace the service head, cable, meter box, etc. but I cannot find anything in the code that says I can't leave it a 60 amp service. I did offer to make it a fresh 200 amp service but they would rather save the few dollars and keep it a 60 amp. The panel is in perfect condition.

Any reason I can keep it 60 amps.

Thanks,
Chuck
Once you touch the existing service, you may have to bring the panel up to min 100A.
 

fmtjfw

Senior Member
I once had two services on a pole in a school yard. Both were pretty ratty. One had degraded sheath, no actually no sheath on the SE cable and the other had a rusted out breaker box. I called the power company and gave them both meter numbers, explaining that I wanted to disconnect both services and replace them with one service. They explained that one service did not below to the school and I could not have it disconnected and they couldn't tell me who owned it.

I said ok, let me rephrase it, I have a cable on MY pole that I considered a hazard to students, that if they didn't want to disconnect it, I'd get our bucket truck (parked 20 feet from the pole) and we'd remove it. They decided that they could tell me who owned it. It belonged to the Lion's Club (don't ask why) and the contact was XX. That was funny because XX was the head of maintenance for the school. So he called them and all went well from there. (And the Lion's Club no longer had to pay for the two 125W floodlights AND the metering charge.)

And we got a single service and lighting that we installed and maintained.
 

jumper

Senior Member
I once had two services on a pole in a school yard. Both were pretty ratty. One had degraded sheath, no actually no sheath on the SE cable and the other had a rusted out breaker box. I called the power company and gave them both meter numbers, explaining that I wanted to disconnect both services and replace them with one service. They explained that one service did not below to the school and I could not have it disconnected and they couldn't tell me who owned it.

I said ok, let me rephrase it, I have a cable on MY pole that I considered a hazard to students, that if they didn't want to disconnect it, I'd get our bucket truck (parked 20 feet from the pole) and we'd remove it. They decided that they could tell me who owned it. It belonged to the Lion's Club (don't ask why) and the contact was XX. That was funny because XX was the head of maintenance for the school. So he called them and all went well from there. (And the Lion's Club no longer had to pay for the two 125W floodlights AND the metering charge.)

And we got a single service and lighting that we installed and maintained.

Cool story.:thumbsup:
 

cdolor

Member
Thanks for the direction everyone. I looked up the code reference. Can't believe I didn't see it earlier.
They are getting an upgrade to 100 amp.

Thanks,
Chuck
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
This only requires the rating of the disconnecting means to be 100 amps...
And 230.42(B) requires conductors to be sized to 230.79 which means minimum of 100 amp service conductors for a dwelling. I find no similar requirement for dwelling supplied by a feeder.

Some things can be classified as a simple repair and may not need to be upgraded at all if replacement is replace like for like, that is the way it is here.
What if repairs are made to something that is not or never was code compliant?

In OP's situation I would at very least replace the degraded service cable with a 4 AWG copper or 2 AWG aluminum cable. Cost will not be much different than replacing original (probably 6 AWG copper) with 6 AWG copper. These sizes would be allowed for a 100 amp feed to a dwelling. He could also feed a 100 amp main and subfeed existing panel and then everything is code compliant. If existing panel is easy to get main breaker for just swap the main as the bus is likely rated at least 125 amps.
 

tgreen

Member
I had a similar situation on my grandmas house years ago.
existing service was 120v, 60amp.
I installed 240v and a 60amp main. inspector said that it had to be a 100 amp service.
I told him it was the meter base was rated at 100amps. there was #2 Alum going up the mast.
the meter base had room for two mains, so i installed one 60amp main with a provision for another 40amp main

the service passed and all was good.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I had a similar situation on my grandmas house years ago.
existing service was 120v, 60amp.
I installed 240v and a 60amp main. inspector said that it had to be a 100 amp service.
I told him it was the meter base was rated at 100amps. there was #2 Alum going up the mast.
the meter base had room for two mains, so i installed one 60amp main with a provision for another 40amp main

the service passed and all was good.

At least he listened to what you had to say and changed his mind. Some are not willing to admit to being wrong. That was a compliant installation.
 

satcom

Senior Member
At least he listened to what you had to say and changed his mind. Some are not willing to admit to being wrong. That was a compliant installation.

The meter is not considered a disconnect means, in the past there were plenty of debates about the old six switch rule, we tried to replace just the service cable and when it came inspection time, after the new code of 100a min they wanted the panel replaced, and now we have the 2 grounds to add to the list, we watched a guy last week, argue with the inspector, and even tried to use the rehab code, to change the inspectors mind.
There are times when you can make repairs, and even then you have to consider the condition of the meter base, or you can end up trying to explain to the customer why the extra costs.
 
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