AED on the jobsite (again)

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I^2R

Member
Location
NH
(automated external defibrillator)

I see the question was asked 2 years ago, but I thought I would bring it up again to see how things may have changed.

So are any or you guys making them / having them made available on the jobsite? I'm particularly interested in the mobile electrical contractor more than large fixed facilities where I'm starting to see them more.

Old post --> http://forums.mikeholt.com/archive/index.php/t-94018.html
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
This sounds silly however I was always wondering if you cut the end off an extension cord. Stick hot (120 volts) on one side of the chest and neutral on the other .
What might happen?
If the persons heart has stopped this couldn't make it stop again, right?
 

I^2R

Member
Location
NH
This sounds silly however I was always wondering if you cut the end off an extension cord. Stick hot (120 volts) on one side of the chest and neutral on the other .
What might happen?
If the persons heart has stopped this couldn't make it stop again, right?

Ummm.... nevermind.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
This sounds silly however I was always wondering if you cut the end off an extension cord. Stick hot (120 volts) on one side of the chest and neutral on the other .
What might happen?
If the persons heart has stopped this couldn't make it stop again, right?


So, what's your definition of electrocution then?
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I don't know... I was just wondering what voltage they use.

I guess it is only one to two volts. 120 volts would be an over kill no pun intented.

http://www.americanaed.com/aedspecialscabs.html

Not to mention you use DC to defibrilate the heart. The only time a AED is used is when the heart experiencing ventricilar fibrilation, (Caused by an AC shock and the leading cause of death for shock victims). The function of an AED is to defibrilate the heart, or stop the heart. Hoping the usual impulses from the brian take back over thus restoring a normal heartbeat rythm.

Your method would only ensure death. (But it works in the movies)
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
(automated external defibrillator)

I see the question was asked 2 years ago, but I thought I would bring it up again to see how things may have changed.

So are any or you guys making them / having them made available on the jobsite? I'm particularly interested in the mobile electrical contractor more than large fixed facilities where I'm starting to see them more.

Old post --> http://forums.mikeholt.com/archive/index.php/t-94018.html

Last company I worked for we had them on every service van. The best way is to lease them, they train you and maintain them for a pretty small charge, don't recall what it was but lower than you would think.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Good Samaritan

Good Samaritan

I didn't go back to the other link, but this come to mind:

Good Samaritan laws can very from State to State.

The best way to protect yourself from possible liability when helping others is to always act on behalf of the victim. That may sound obvious, but if your motivation is to be a hero and not to help out a fellow human, then you risk making the types of mistakes not covered by good Samaritan laws.

Here are some good tips for staying out of court:

Take a CPR and first aid class
Follow your training
Use common sense
Don't do anything you're not trained to do
Get professional help for the victim
Do not accept gifts or rewards

Good Samaritan laws do not protect you from everything. It is human nature to make mistakes. Good Samaritan laws take this into account and protect helpful citizens if the mistakes made are reasonable.
 

fondini

Senior Member
Location
nw ohio
This sounds silly however I was always wondering if you cut the end off an extension cord. Stick hot (120 volts) on one side of the chest and neutral on the other .
What might happen?
If the persons heart has stopped this couldn't make it stop again, right?

roflmao good one!:D
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Not to mention you use DC to defibrilate the heart. The only time a AED is used is when the heart experiencing ventricilar fibrilation, (Caused by an AC shock and the leading cause of death for shock victims). The function of an AED is to defibrilate the heart, or stop the heart. Hoping the usual impulses from the brian take back over thus restoring a normal heartbeat rythm.

Your method would only ensure death. (But it works in the movies)

Okay , Thanks for the info. Good thing I have not had to use my method.
Imagine that.:)
And my helper was saying "hey how about the door bell wires thier only 24 volts. You hold the wires and I'll push the button".;)

But seriously our home in Indy is so secluded I would like to have one and the skills to use it thier. Here is a link with prices to portable AED's http://www.americanaed.com/products.html
 

WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
We have these things all over the place here. They are pretty much idiot proof that even a electrican can use them....:D. We had some issues with them a few months ago where someone went down, and the two closest AEDs had dead batteries. There were no indications by looking at the outside of them to determine battery charge. We have since replaced a few hundred with the battery indicator visible on the outside.

We have them labeled as "For Trained Personnel Use Only" because of conflicting "Good Samaritan" law issues, but I'm pretty sure anyone could use them and not worry about a lawsuit.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I think the big danger with this whole AED concept, and I'll throw CPR into this discussion, comes from a prospective Good Samaritan not knowing when NOT to use it.

A person who is unconscious, but whose heart is beating (however faintly), can be inadvertently killed by an attempt to use an AED or CPR to ?revive? him. A heart that is doing its job poorly can do still that job far better than external heart compressions can achieve. An externally applied shock or externally applied physical pressure can cause a poorly beating heart to give up completely. A heart that is in atrial fibrillation is doing its job poorly, but it has not yet stopped beating, and does not by itself present an immediate threat to life. A heart that is in ventricular fibrillation is not doing its job at all, even though it is still beating, and the victim will soon die, unless he receives immediate medical intervention. What I do not know is how you train a non-medical professional to discern the difference.

The last time I took a CPR class (my training is not current), the instructor told a story about a person trying to give CPR to an auto accident victim. The victim kept trying to tell the "Good Samaritan" that he was fine, but the "rescuer" kept insisting that, "No, I have to give you CPR." :roll:
 

mivey

Senior Member
...The last time I took a CPR class (my training is not current), the instructor told a story about a person trying to give CPR to an auto accident victim. The victim kept trying to tell the "Good Samaritan" that he was fine, but the "rescuer" kept insisting that, "No, I have to give you CPR." :roll:
You had to be there. I just knew J. Anniston did not know what she was talking about. She was traumatized by the wreck and all...:grin:
 

WorkSafe

Senior Member
Location
Moore, OK
I think the big danger with this whole AED concept, and I'll throw CPR into this discussion, comes from a prospective Good Samaritan not knowing when NOT to use it.

A person who is unconscious, but whose heart is beating (however faintly), can be inadvertently killed by an attempt to use an AED or CPR to “revive” him. A heart that is doing its job poorly can do still that job far better than external heart compressions can achieve. An externally applied shock or externally applied physical pressure can cause a poorly beating heart to give up completely. A heart that is in atrial fibrillation is doing its job poorly, but it has not yet stopped beating, and does not by itself present an immediate threat to life. A heart that is in ventricular fibrillation is not doing its job at all, even though it is still beating, and the victim will soon die, unless he receives immediate medical intervention. What I do not know is how you train a non-medical professional to discern the difference.


From what I understand, the AED knows the difference and it only can deliver a shock if it meets that certain criteria? You just can't slap the AED pads on someone and shock them......
 

mivey

Senior Member
From what I understand, the AED knows the difference and it only can deliver a shock if it meets that certain criteria? You just can't slap the AED pads on someone and shock them......
That is what they told us about the ones we have at work. Thankfully, we have not had to test it yet.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
From what I understand, the AED knows the difference and it only can deliver a shock if it meets that certain criteria? You just can't slap the AED pads on someone and shock them......

That is the way an AED works. It senses how the heart is working or not working and only allows a shock if it is appropriate. There is no danger of shocking someone inadvertantly.

Its not a bad idea to get some training first and IIRC, the training does not amount to a real long session. I think the combined CPR/AED course is only 4 hours.
 
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