Residential refrigerator circuit

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Dedicated circut to refrigerator
One inspector says put arc fault breaker on it
Another inspector says gfci breaker
Can't find it in 2011nec
Any one can help
No motor should be on these breakers I believe


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Dennis Alwon

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The 2011 does not require afci or gfci for a refrigerator circuit. The 2014 requires afci for the refrigerator. Gfci will only be req. if the refrigerator is within 6' of the sink
 

iwire

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Dedicated circut to refrigerator
One inspector says put arc fault breaker on it
Another inspector says gfci breaker
Can't find it in 2011nec
Any one can help
No motor should be on these breakers I believe

Just a side note, the NEC has no problem requiring GFCIs for motor loads.

For instance pool pumps and every 15 & 20 amp 125 volt circuit on a non-dwelling kitchen ... refrigerators, freezers etc must be GFCI protected.
 

Little Bill

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Tennessee NEC:2017
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Semi-Retired Electrician
This is a misconception. There are no operational issues between motors and AFCI or GFCI devices. AFCI and GFCI requirements in Article 210, 422, 680, and others apply to motor and motor-driven equipment.


Other than vacuums, saws, treadmills, drills, refrigerators, ...........................
 

johnmeto

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There are no operational issues in the middle of engines and AFCI or GFCI gadgets. AFCI and GFCI prerequisites in Article 210, 422, 680, and others apply to engine and engine driven hardware.
 

iwire

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This is a misconception. There are no operational issues between motors and AFCI or GFCI devices.

Strange, about 11 years ago you had this to say

Siemens%20AFCI_zpsxekb3r2o.jpg


You can see the thread here http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=67314&p=465872#post465872




Now I know a lot can change in 11 years but from watching the posts on this forums it seems that AFCIs and some motor loads still do not get along. The only folks on this forum I recall claiming otherwise have been NEMA / NFPA folks.
 

JFletcher

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Location
Williamsburg, VA
Now I know a lot can change in 11 years but from watching the posts on this forums it seems that AFCIs and some motor loads still do not get along.

Slightly off-topic, a few weeks ago we had a call for a vac tripping the breaker. It was plugged into the bedroom receptacle, and the breaker was an arc fault type. The breaker was reset and its test button pushed; it failed to trip. Plugged vac back in, insta trip. The time upon doing the test, it did trip. We changed out the breaker, and my boss noted the sticker color was different than what was originally installed in the Square-D panel (pink vs yellow, dont hold me to that tho). Vac worked fine after that, as well as on the three other originally installed AFCI circuit breaker protected receptacles.

Maybe that breaker was too sensitive from the factory, maybe newer ones are better. istm that any breaker/gfci failing to trip with its test button has failed (assuming it is wired correctly).
 

iwire

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Maybe that breaker was too sensitive from the factory, maybe newer ones are better. istm that any breaker/gfci failing to trip with its test button has failed (assuming it is wired correctly).

I have no problem at all believing sometimes it is just a random defect, stuff happens. :)

But the numbers of questions coming in on the forums strikes me as something more than a random defect.
 

bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Strange, about 11 years ago you had this to say..

Eleven years ago this was information that was being shared publically by one or more of the AFCI manufacturers. Since that time, the product standard and technology has gone through at least three revisions to address this and other unwanted tripping issues.

In many cases, it has been found the appliance itself was not to standard and therefore would present an operational characteristic that would fall into the AFCI's trip zone. Many of these have been addressed.

At one point in the history of AFCI technology, there were really only four contributors. These four companies had to invent the technology and figure out nearly independently how to meet the product standard's performance requirements. Since that time, the AFCI market has expanded from the original four circuit breaker manufacturers to the receptacle manufacturers, component manufacturers, the PV industry, and the appliance industry.

All these new companies have brought to the table some fresh ideas, new techniques, and innovated concepts to help move the technology forward. At the same time, appliances manufacturers and their product standards have been caught-up to speed.

My cell phone from eleven years ago can't do what my current iPhone can now. This is how technology works in time.
 

peter d

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Location
New England
Eleven years ago this was information that was being shared publically by one or more of the AFCI manufacturers. Since that time, the product standard and technology has gone through at least three revisions to address this and other unwanted tripping issues.

In many cases, it has been found the appliance itself was not to standard and therefore would present an operational characteristic that would fall into the AFCI's trip zone. Many of these have been addressed.

At one point in the history of AFCI technology, there were really only four contributors. These four companies had to invent the technology and figure out nearly independently how to meet the product standard's performance requirements. Since that time, the AFCI market has expanded from the original four circuit breaker manufacturers to the receptacle manufacturers, component manufacturers, the PV industry, and the appliance industry.

All these new companies have brought to the table some fresh ideas, new techniques, and innovated concepts to help move the technology forward. At the same time, appliances manufacturers and their product standards have been caught-up to speed.

My cell phone from eleven years ago can't do what my current iPhone can now. This is how technology works in time.

Let me translate this spin that would make even the most seasoned politician proud. The AFCI technology was immature and brought to market too soon without the proper testing and development, and end-users are the guinea pigs for testing.
 

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
At one point in the history of AFCI technology, there were really only four contributors. These four companies had to invent the technology and figure out nearly independently how to meet the product standard's performance requirements.

That was their choice to do so, that is not heroic. They chose to do it for future profits and that has worked out fine for them.

My cell phone from eleven years ago can't do what my current iPhone can now. This is how technology works in time.

I understand that 11 years is a long time when talking about technology.

However ...... it is a fact that people are still having problems with them and they are not all installation errors or appliance problems.
 
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