Service disconnect

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jeffbob

New member
Location
Kansas City
230.40 exception #3 allows for a single family dwelling unit and a separate structure to have (1) set of service entrance conductors ran to each from a single service drop or lateral. My question is this, I have a customer with a 400 amp service but they only have a 200 amp panel to feed the house. They built a pool house in the back yard and would like to set a 200 amp panel to service it. The meter has a open set of lugs in the bottom. If I feed the pool house from the open lugs in the meter would I have to set a disconnecting means on the house near the meter. I am thinking this would be considered (2) seperate 200 amp services and I could just install a main breaker panel at the pool house for disconnect. I'm hoping to avoid the cost setting a disconnect and running 4-wire. Thanks for your help!
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
If you happen to have a '08 Handbook, exhibit 230.14 shows what I think is your situation. Inspectors in this area have accepted a 2nd set of service conductors to connect at the meter and run to a second structure without any OCP at the 1st structure, however, some of the POCOs will not allow it locally (no idea why) so you might want to run it by yours.
 

inspector 102

Senior Member
Location
Northern Indiana
Would this set up violate 230.72 by not having the disconnects group. I would view this as still one service since a single lateral serves the meter base, but I would expect the disconnect(s) to be at a central location. This would then require the 4-wire assembly to the pool house as feeders. I am sure that others will disagree, so I will see how others respond before I change my mind.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I don't believe the disconnects need to be grouped because the service for the pool is on another structure.

If I had a meter on a pole I could run all the way to the house. I could even go around the house, on the building structure, and then add the disconnect where I enter the house.

As long as the pool building is a separate structure I believe a disconnect would not be needed on the house.
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
Would this set up violate 230.72 by not having the disconnects group. I would view this as still one service since a single lateral serves the meter base, but I would expect the disconnect(s) to be at a central location. This would then require the 4-wire assembly to the pool house as feeders. I am sure that others will disagree, so I will see how others respond before I change my mind.

Exception #3 to 230.40 permits a single family dwelling unit and a separate structure to have one set of service entrance conductors run to each structure from a single service drop or lateral.

So in essence each structure will have a separate service and each will have a separate service disconnecting means.

Chris
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Around here, a disconnect with overcurrent protection,is required to be withing 5' of the Meter Base.
It is allowed to have the meter on the outside of the house back to back with a Panel inside of the house as long as the panel has a main breaker in it and is within 5'.
If we were to do what you were saying here,we would have to install a disconnect with overcurrent protection within 5' of the meter, which would then turn the service to the pool house into a feeder.

Now we have a disconnect on the outside of the house and one on the inside of the house. which in my mind is a violation because the disconnects to completely shut everything fed off of that one service are not grouped in one location.

In my mind , the reason for grouping the disconnects is to be able to shut down all the power provided by that service in one location at one time.

If you shut the outside disconnect off for the pool house at the meter on the house,
the house is still energized because the main is still on in the inside panel.
To me this is not grouped, and defeats the purpose.

and if you can't consider the Meter itself as a disconnecting means, I would say this installation is a violation.

They would have been money ahead to have installed a big enough panel to begin with so they could have fed the pool house from a breaker in the house panel or a combo meter main with a spare breaker and this would have not been an issue.


If the inspector indicated that a disconnect would have to be added to the outside of the house, for the house, since we added the disconnect for the poolhouse, I would have to say that he was correct if for nothing other than grouping purposes.

Although it look acceptable to extend service conductors from the load side of a meter (without a disconnect ) to a seperate structure with a disconnect by all the drawings I see posted, We are not allowed to extend the service conductors more than 5' from the meterbase. I have never seen in our area where the service conductors were extended from the load side of the meter base for very far at all.

I would call the inspector in your area and get his advise before I ever got started, if for nothing else other than to passify my decision.

all this is just my opinion for whats it's worth.

JAP.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Jap, the nec, barring local amendments, allows service conductors to be unfused until they enter the structure. Once they enter the structure then a disconnect must be there at a readily accessible location and as near as practical to the point of entry. 230.70(A)(1).

I have heard of some areas that demand the disconnect be outside and immediately adjacent to the meter.

I am not convinced that in your situation, with a disco on the house and feeder to the pool, there is a violation. If this is two services then they do not need to be grouped.

I still am not certain what constitutes one or two services. Apparently others don't either from the info on another recent thread on this issue.
 

pete m.

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
I have never seen in our area where the service conductors were extended from the load side of the meter base for very far at all.

I would assume that there is a local ordinance in your area that negates exception #3 to 230.40?

Pete
 
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