Code violation?

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wbdvt

Senior Member
Location
Rutland, VT, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer, PE
Hello,
I am not well versed in the code but I think this installation must violate some code. This is a main breaker setup where the original was a fused switch and the switch components were taken out and a 400A breaker installed.
I assume this would be along the lines of use not designed for, openings not sealed, workmanship????
Thank you
 

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jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Hello,
I am not well versed in the code but I think this installation must violate some code. This is a main breaker setup where the original was a fused switch and the switch components were taken out and a 400A breaker installed.
I assume this would be along the lines of use not designed for, openings not sealed, workmanship????
Thank you

It appears that the breaker is in a proper enclosure which has been mounted inside of a separate steel box. I see nothing that jumps out as a violation.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
There is a listing issue.

This appears to be a modified device. I would bet that the breaker is just mounted inside the switch and not a breaker panel complete installed within the safety switch location.

The safety switch is not listed to have a breaker installed.
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Breakers are installed in "cabinets" covered by Article 312 and cabinets are not required to be listed. That being said, there opening in the "cabinet" that would be code violations.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The safety switch is not listed to have a breaker installed.

It is no longer a safety switch probably a good idea to remove the tag that says it is as well as plug the openings that were left. Otherwise the breaker used doesn't have any specific enclosure it is to be used in, especially if it has lugs on both ends, if it has plug on jaws or other special bus connection then maybe we have more of a listing issue with the breaker itself.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Regardless of anything else, the breaker is probably not listed as an EPO device either, UL category NISD.

Roger
 

mwm1752

Senior Member
Location
Aspen, Colo
AIC rating may come into play - Kinda looks like an emergency fix that was never followed up on. I would have to agree a listing is required, the "suitable for service equipment" tag was installed when the disconnect was new and in tack. Who has the authority to relist compments -- only a NRTL. There's a good chance it would never cause harm but that would not be my decision to make.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
AIC rating may come into play - Kinda looks like an emergency fix that was never followed up on. I would have to agree a listing is required, the "suitable for service equipment" tag was installed when the disconnect was new and in tack. Who has the authority to relist compments -- only a NRTL. There's a good chance it would never cause harm but that would not be my decision to make.
Suitable for use as service equipment may come into play - but we really don't know if this is used as service equipment either.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
The creativity of people never ceases to amaze.
I know in todays world with listing requirements and the "sky is falling" folks something like this seems hackish but, one of the first journeymen I worked under (a long time ago) always said one of the biggest assets of a good electrician was the ability to improvise.

Roger
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
I know in todays world with listing requirements and the "sky is falling" folks something like this seems hackish but, one of the first journeymen I worked under (a long time ago) always said one of the biggest assets of a good electrician was the ability to improvise.

Roger
That's how I was raised.
Luckily I didn't find myself in a situation where I had to make it work that way.
I'd rather replace what's damaged or find another way. I don't have what it takes to alter things like that and know it's of sound workmanship.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
I know in todays world with listing requirements and the "sky is falling" folks something like this seems hackish but, one of the first journeymen I worked under (a long time ago) always said one of the biggest assets of a good electrician was the ability to improvise.

Roger
Thank you Roger for putting this out there. I agree.
 

John120/240

Senior Member
Location
Olathe, Kansas
The creativity of people never ceases to amaze.

I know in todays world with listing requirements and the "sky is falling" folks something like this seems hackish but, one of the first journeymen I worked under (a long time ago) always said one of the biggest assets of a good electrician was the ability to improvise.

Roger

I have had to get creative at times also, but modifying a piece of equipment in Todays law suit happy world is not a choice I would make. For a temporary situation when new equipment is not available OK. Then install the new equipment in a timely fashion.
 
I agree with roger and dave also. As far as the sue happy world... what if you did this as a temporary repair and then when you priced out the permanent repair the customer didn't want to do it? I am of coarse no lawyer , but it seems to me that as long as you make it clear on the paperwork that this is a "temporary repair" and recommend replacement, you should be ok.
 

ActionDave

Chief Moderator
Staff member
Location
Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
Occupation
Licensed Electrician
I consider myself lucky that I fell in with a Can Do shop.

In a day and age when a child can sue his parents for his poor childhood and make it to court I don't think there is much that one can't be sued for. I consider it inevitable, not something to fret about.
 
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