GFCI Breaker Feeding Pool Panel Timer & Pump

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JJT66

Member
Location
New York
Advice on GFCI Breaker to Pool Panel Timer and Pump. I'm feeling it's a bonding issue. House Panel to Sub Panel in garage. Neutral & ground separate in Sub Panel. Sub Panel feeding Pool Panel ( Intermatic T3000R with Time clock ). Neutral & ground separate. 20amp/120 volt GFCI Breaker feeds Time clock which then feeds twist-lock receptacle to pump. GFCI instantly trips. Pool pump motor double insulated plastic. No bonding lug. In past, we bonded to Lug on T-11 box holding our Twist-Loc. Does Pool Panel have to be bonded? Problem #2. Time clock motor is 208/240. Is there a way this can be used? :? Already tried these few things: By passed time clock motor. GFCI Holds and pump runs fine. Also tried, 20amp/120 volt time clock. Same result. GFCI trips instantly. Is it possible I'm picking up leakage thru the Pool Panel. Thanking anyone in advance. Anyone??? :blink:
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
If the GF trips when you conenct the time clock motor I'd check to make sure the neutral on the time clock motor connects to the neutral off the GF and no to a different point (such as a neutral not on your GF). Sounds to me like the GF is seeing timeclock motor current leave and not return.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Gus may be correct but I am guessing that the time clock is the same circuit as the pool pump. If so then I suspect there is an issue with the time clock. You bypassed the clock and the pump runs so this pretty much says there is an issue with the clock.
 

stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
Make sure you have a 240v time clock and not a 120v time clock and vice versa... just saying... :)


Eh, said this without really reading your post... :dunce: You are definitely mis-wiring the time clock off the GFCI circuit breaker.
 
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stickboy1375

Senior Member
Location
Litchfield, CT
also, you need to understand how GFCI's actually work, your post basically says you don't... The GFCI only monitors the net balance AFTER the breaker... bonding and grounding has no relevance to this.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Current that leaves a GFCI output terminal must come back on another output terminal of the same GFCI device. If not you have unbalance current in the GFCI monitoring circuit and it will trip. That means if clock motor ties to output terminal and to something other then the GFCI current imbalance occurs. Better bonding only increases how much current can leak if you just have some leakage issue and can make it trip faster then without the better bonding.

As mentioned your problem seems to be with the timer it is either connected incorrectly or has a ground fault in it.
 

JJT66

Member
Location
New York
Guys.. Guys?? I appreciate all the responses. It's not the time clock as I've stated in my post. I tried two different time clocks with the same results. However,, I will admit I am missing something and it's been quite some time since I've done a pool but I'm a little confused on how you are saying it is possible I'm connecting the neutral wrong Stickboy1375. It's ringing a bell.:huh: Can you be more clear? Oh BTW,, and not to be sarcastic,, thanks for straightening me out on these little things we call electrons.:huh: :lol:
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
What many of us are suggesting is the possibility that one of the loads connected to the GF "hot"
is also connected to a neutral other than the one on the load side of the GF.
The time clock was a likely culprit as often times the motor is connected to a circuit other than the one switched. Have you checked every load connected to the GF to assure it is not also connected to a neutral other than the GF neutral ?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
JJ perhaps you can describe how you wired the time clock and pool motor. The timer may not be the issue but the wiring to it may be the issue
 

JJT66

Member
Location
New York
GFCI / Pool Timer solved

GFCI / Pool Timer solved

:dunce: Well.. My thanks to all of you for the feedback. Now I must embarrass myself by telling you that although I had all my wiring correct, & all my neutrals going to the right place, I HAD one bad neutral wire.:blink: Causing the problem the whole time. What's one of the things we're taught to always check CAREFULLY? Connections and Integrity of the conductors.:ashamed: Problem solved. Thanks to all. Don't I feel silly.:slaphead:
 

JJT66

Member
Location
New York
What many of us are suggesting is the possibility that one of the loads connected to the GF "hot"
is also connected to a neutral other than the one on the load side of the GF.
The time clock was a likely culprit as often times the motor is connected to a circuit other than the one switched. Have you checked every load connected to the GF to assure it is not also connected to a neutral other than the GF neutral ?

Thanks for feedback. Problem solved. Read my follow up just posted today at about 7:25.
 

JJT66

Member
Location
New York
Current that leaves a GFCI output terminal must come back on another output terminal of the same GFCI device. If not you have unbalance current in the GFCI monitoring circuit and it will trip. That means if clock motor ties to output terminal and to something other then the GFCI current imbalance occurs. Better bonding only increases how much current can leak if you just have some leakage issue and can make it trip faster then without the better bonding.

As mentioned your problem seems to be with the timer it is either connected incorrectly or has a ground fault in it.

Thank-you for your feedback. Problem solved. Read my follow up posted today at around 7:25pm. Thanks again.
 
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