License to install conduit?

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JAMAN

Member
Is it required to have an electrical license to install electrical conduit?

For example is the GC allowed to install the conduit and then have the EC pull the cables?

I'd say they would have to be licensed because the conduit is part of the electrical installation/system. Was curious what your thoughts were.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
The rule for licensing and who can do what are determined by your state or city.
In Washington only a licensed electrical contractor can install electrical conduit, raceway and wiring.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
For example is the GC allowed to install the conduit and then have the EC pull the cables?

IF the GC were that good, he'd already be an electrican, or a master, with a crew.

Leads me to believe that the general has no concept of what is involved in piping, or respect for those that are good at it.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Here in MA, CT and RI you must be licensed or be an apprentice under the direct supervision of a licensed person to install conduits.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
It's part of wiring, rather dought any state allows it. Why would any electrician be willing to use his pipe work ? How will you know if it has burs, loose couplings,etc ? Chances are high it will be full of kinks and not fastened to code.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
On the wire pulling crew.....

A radio transmission....

What do you mean the 4" conduit is laying on the floor? Didn't even have a 1000 pounds of tension on it..."
 

JAMAN

Member
Wow, thanks for the quick replies.

To follow up on this post, the EC on the project came back with a high price to install underground conduits. The owner is trying to save money and was hoping the GC could install it at a cheaper price.

Thanks again for all your help.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Wow, thanks for the quick replies.

To follow up on this post, the EC on the project came back with a high price to install underground conduits. The owner is trying to save money and was hoping the GC could install it at a cheaper price.

Thanks again for all your help.
If it is in the ground i would let the owner dig the ditch but not install pipe
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Here some underground utility companies install the duct banks, but this is for the utilities.


Same here which I think is what sometimes leads GCs to think that no license is needed because they do not know the difference between NEC wiring and utility company wiring.
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
Maybe cheaper to have the GC dig - per the EC's instructions. No reason to pay to have the EC drag a machine out to the site and pay rental on a machine when you may already have one on site ready to dig. Or hand the keys to the EC and have them get going. Just a thought.
 

wawireguy

Senior Member
If you're the EC I'd make sure it's documented with the inspector or on your permit that someone else did part of the work. No reason to take responsibility for someone elses work.
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Is it required to have an electrical license to install electrical conduit?

For example is the GC allowed to install the conduit and then have the EC pull the cables?

I'd say they would have to be licensed because the conduit is part of the electrical installation/system. Was curious what your thoughts were.

I agree with the others. No self respecting electrician would let the GC run any conduit.:-? Digging a trench is fine.
 

ibew441dc

Senior Member
I don't want to derail this thread...but this was very much a debate in regards to the requirement for a certified electrician in CA. Laborers, GC's, ect., were attempting to claim this as there scope of work because of the language that was poor at best, posted by the state.

It addressed an electrician as (paraprasing) one who makes terminations exceeding 100 VA, so laborers(especially laborers) were claiming there expertise in running raceways, pulling wire.....ect.

Some may claim that this has not happened, but I speak from experience with this subject.

Some stuff by the state has been cleaned up...but still has a way to go!
 

e57

Senior Member
I will appologise up-front. But this must be said so as not to mis-lead those of us that are in California dealing with our collective fiasco of worker licensing laws.... - So bear with me.

I don't want to derail this thread...but this was very much a debate in regards to the requirement for a certified electrician in CA. Laborers, GC's, ect., were attempting to claim this as there scope of work because of the language that was poor at best, posted by the state.

It addressed an electrician as (paraprasing) one who makes terminations exceeding 100 VA, so laborers(especially laborers) were claiming there expertise in running raceways, pulling wire.....ect.

Some may claim that this has not happened, but I speak from experience with this subject.

Some stuff by the state has been cleaned up...but still has a (REAL DANG LONG) way to go!
B added my me...

Dan we have disagreed on this - but the law creating the regulation is not the same as the regulation wording, and it is the regulation wording is what counts.... While California's "Electrician Certification" is still in it's infancy (some of us have kids older than this law") the rules are still being written and rewritten. The intent was never to allow anyone to do electrical work short of changing a lightbulb.... :grin: It actually took these morons several years to realize that most telephone systems are over 100VA....

While the law authorising the DAS to regulate Electrical workers statewide has the wording of:
This section does not apply to electrical connections under 100 volt-amperes.
Ref: http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ecu/LaborCode3099-3099_5.html
Please read the entire section of that law..... (as you would a code...) As you are taking the wording out of context IMO. And out of the intent of the law. (Job protectionism.... :rolleyes: Different story.)
AB 931, Calderon. Electricians: apprenticeship standards.
Existing law provides for apprenticeship programs within the
Division of Apprenticeship Standards in the Department of Industrial
Relations.
This bill would require the division, on or before January 1,
2001, to establish and validate minimum standards for the competency
and training of electricians, as defined, through a system of testing
and certification; establish fees necessary to implement those
requirements; and establish and adopt regulations for enforcement
purposes
; and on or before March 1, 2000, establish an advisory
committee and panels, as specified. Discrimination for or against
any person based upon union or nonunion membership would be
prohibited. These requirements would not be applicable with respect
to electrical connections under 100 volt-amperes, or to persons
performing specified electrical work.



THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:


SECTION 1. Section 3099 is added to the Labor Code, to read:
3099. The Division of Apprenticeship Standards shall do all of
the following:

(a) On or before January 1, 2001, establish and validate minimum
standards for the competency and training of electricians through a
system of testing and certification.
(b) On or before March 1, 2000, establish an advisory committee
and panels as necessary to carry out the functions under this
section. There shall be contractor representation from both joint
apprenticeship programs and unilateral nonunion programs in the
electrical contracting industry.
(c) On or before January 1, 2001, establish fees necessary to
implement this section.
(d) On or before January 1, 2001, establish and adopt regulations
to enforce this section.
(e) There shall be no discrimination for or against any person
based on membership or nonmembership in a union.
As used in this section, "electricians" include all employees who
engage in the connection of electrical devices for electrical
contractors licensed pursuant to Section 7058 of the Business and
Professions Code, specifically, contractors classified as
electricians in the Contractors' State License Board Rules and
Regulations.
This section does not apply to electrical connections
under 100 volt-amperes. This section does not apply to persons
performing work to which Section 7042.1 of the Business and
Professions Code is applicable, or to electrical work ordinarily and
customarily performed by stationary engineers.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/99-00/bill/asm/ab_0901-0950/ab_931_bill_19991010_chaptered.html The "section" in that is the entire labor code number 3099.

The section of law only grants the DAS to create the program, a few sentances before that there are these words:
3099a(5) On or before July 1, 2001, establish and adopt regulations to enforce this section.
Those regulations are here:
290.1~General Electrician is one who performs work for a C-10 electrical contractor installing, constructing or maintaining any electrical system that is covered by the National Electric Code.
~
Ref:http://www.dir.ca.gov/t8/ch2sb4.html

Closely interpeted a raceway - especially a metallic raceway is part of an electrical system covered by the NEC. (Too bad we don't use the NEC - we use the CEC! A few ammendments but legally a different document. But that is up to the judge... :rolleyes:)

All employees of C-10's (C-10's are in CSLB's B&P codes under 7058 mentioned above) who use tools to 'construct any electrical system' must be certified! (Or registered as Apprentices or ET's) To promote the idea that it is otherwise does disservice to the reader IMO. As if they follow this advise it could be damaging to their income and career. (Especially since the laws and regulations are so slippery... :cool:)

Any person who displays a certificate, or otherwise claims to be certified, who is not certified shall be prohibited from taking the test for certification or from registering as an Electrician Trainee Registrant for a period of seven (7) years.
Since being employeed by an EC and being on the job could very well be construed as an act of fraud as the law stands... How would you like to be an Apprentice for the next seven years? ;)
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Dan and Mark, please do not derail this thread, you guys already have CA licensing threads in progress or you can start another.
 

ultramegabob

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
there is no way I would work on a job that the general contractor ran the conduit, could you imagine relying on them to size the conduit and calculate the degrees of bend for a pull?
 
I agree with ultramegbob, I would not work for an GC who is too cheap to pay for what others are licensed to do. I can only imagine what else he does not want to pay for.

I know times are tough out there, but we still can only take one thing with us when the 'big guy' calls...our integrity.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Maybe the GC has an electrician who can do it.

In any case, I find it hard to believe a GC would be able to do this any cheaper than someone who does it every day.
 
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