60 amp gfci Square D

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dilm

Member
I have installed a 60 amp GFCI square D breaker to feed a hot tub/spa combo.
Powered it up and it lasted about 3 miniutes and tripped. Reset and same thing. Went to trouble shoot mode and found nothing wrong on spa. Pulled the pig tail from nuetral and reset to complete trouble shooting. Same results. I figured that by pulling pig tail it would disable GFCI. Installed regular breaker to try and get to root of problem and have not had problem. Any boby have an idea what i have over looked. Driving me crazy.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
If the spa is tripping the GFCI, then there is a problem with it. What exactly did you do to determine that there was "nothing wrong on spa?"

Disconnecting the neutral on the GFCI is not going to accomplish anything. The neutral must be connected at all time for it to operate correctly, even with no load neutral connected. It sounds to me like you are shooting in the dark.

If the spa is new, then the company that sold it should deal with it as a warranty issue.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I have installed a 60 amp GFCI square D breaker to feed a hot tub/spa combo.
Powered it up and it lasted about 3 miniutes and tripped. Reset and same thing. Went to trouble shoot mode and found nothing wrong on spa. Pulled the pig tail from nuetral and reset to complete trouble shooting. Same results. I figured that by pulling pig tail it would disable GFCI. Installed regular breaker to try and get to root of problem and have not had problem. Any boby have an idea what i have over looked. Driving me crazy.

As peter suggested call the spa company but I would also try a different breaker first. Sounds like a spa problem.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Take the wires from the disconnect out of the terminals in the spa. Cover them with tape or a wire nut. Turn the disco on.

If it stays on, the problem is the spa, and is a warranty issue. If it still trips, the problem is in the wiring between the disco and the spa.
 

dilm

Member
I disconnected the nuetral to try and isolate the GFI portion. The breaker still continued to trip. The trouble shooting was a visual for loose connections, saturated componets from a leak, etc. None found. Figured if I isolated the GFI I could run motors and run through pumps to look for obvios problems. All fired up but didn't last long. about two to three min. max. Had a spare breaker and installed it and it is holding fine. Fault current is equal. Thinking it might be breaker, but wanted to know if anybody else might have had a simular problem. I also would agree with spa being problem but other breaker working, is turning me in different direction.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I disconnected the nuetral to try and isolate the GFI portion. The breaker still continued to trip. The trouble shooting was a visual for loose connections, saturated componets from a leak, etc. None found. Figured if I isolated the GFI I could run motors and run through pumps to look for obvios problems. All fired up but didn't last long. about two to three min. max. Had a spare breaker and installed it and it is holding fine. Fault current is equal. Thinking it might be breaker, but wanted to know if anybody else might have had a simular problem. I also would agree with spa being problem but other breaker working, is turning me in different direction.

Disconnecting the neutral pigtail will tell you nothing and using a regular DP breaker wont either unless there is a dead short between the lines. If there is any leakage between the ground and any conductor it will trip that GFCI. Test it as ken (480 sparky) suggested.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I disconnected the nuetral to try and isolate the GFI portion. The breaker still continued to trip. The trouble shooting was a visual for loose connections, saturated componets from a leak, etc. None found. Figured if I isolated the GFI I could run motors and run through pumps to look for obvios problems. All fired up but didn't last long. about two to three min. max. Had a spare breaker and installed it and it is holding fine. Fault current is equal. Thinking it might be breaker, but wanted to know if anybody else might have had a simular problem. I also would agree with spa being problem but other breaker working, is turning me in different direction.

You installed a spare breaker. Is it a GFI breaker, or a normal breaker?

How are you measuring fault current, as you state 'Fault current is equal'?

Monkeying around with in the innards of equipment like this is a huge liability. It's not your equipment, and not your responsibility to fix it. I would simply determine if the problem is in the tub, or before it. It it's in the tub, I would call the manufacturer.

If it's in the wiring between the tub & disco, that's easy to replace.
 

hillbilly1

Senior Member
Location
North Georgia mountains
Occupation
Owner/electrical contractor
I disconnected the nuetral to try and isolate the GFI portion.

I hope that this spa was 240 volt only, not 120/240. You just created an open neutral condition which can send high voltages to the control board. Since it is taking about three minutes for it to trip, it is very likely the problem is in the spa. Something that has a time delay before it works, could be the heater. If it is defective it will have enough leakage current to trip it, where a standard breaker would not.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
That it tripped with the neutral pigtail disconnected shows the problem is current between one line conductor and the EGC (which I don't recommend disconnecting.)

If this is a used spa, the odds are it's the heater element that is leaking current into the water (which has the most intimate contact with the water in the spa.)

The next troubleshooting step would be to disconnect and cover the two wires (black and red, most likely) on the heater element's terminals and try it again.

If it's a new spa, I agree with everyone else that it's a warranty issue, and the spa owner should be the one to complain to the dealer/manufacturer, not you.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
disconnect the load side conductors from the circuit breaker. if it trips, the breaker is faulty. if it holds, connect the conductors to the spa, but disconnect the spa; if it trips, there is a problem with your wiring. if it holds, there is a problem in the spa.


in all my years of wiring spas, i've had one faulty GFCI 2-pole breaker, and it was a cutler hammer BR type, which i purchased only because cutler-hammer was the only gfci they had in stock (spa package).
 

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
I hope no one's trying to use that spa right now...the OP has left a VERY dangerous condition behind and could get into serious trouble if someone gets zapped or killed...:mad:

I agree with Larry: the heater's the most likely culprit, timing sounds about right..delay for controls to determine heat's needed and pump is running, then element needs to get up to temperature which is when it grounds out.

To the OP:

Disconnect that spa, lock it out until you get the problem fixed!! And put that GFCI breaker back!!
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I agree with Larry: the heater's the most likely culprit, timing sounds about right..delay for controls to determine heat's needed and pump is running, then element needs to get up to temperature which is when it grounds out.
The mineral coating is probably cracked, and the heat causes the crack to expand, which takes a few seconds.

I repeat the suggestion about removing the wires from the heater terminals within the spa-pack temporarily.
 

dilm

Member
Thanks to all who replied. I heard "The popping sound" about isolating GFI breaker and check if it is tripping on its own. Some times one has a problem seeing the forest for the trees. If it doesn't trip then time for the Spa folks to take over. The heater makes since, and is probably the culprit. The spa is OOS just needed to do a sanity check. Again thanks.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Some times one has a problem seeing the forest for the trees.
"It's like a finger pointing away to the moon...
"Don't concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all that heavenly glory!" ~ Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon
 

wireguru

Senior Member
I have installed a 60 amp GFCI square D breaker to feed a hot tub/spa combo.
Powered it up and it lasted about 3 miniutes and tripped. Reset and same thing. Went to trouble shoot mode and found nothing wrong on spa. Pulled the pig tail from nuetral and reset to complete trouble shooting. Same results. I figured that by pulling pig tail it would disable GFCI. Installed regular breaker to try and get to root of problem and have not had problem. Any boby have an idea what i have over looked. Driving me crazy.

ok so you replaced a gfi that keeps tripping with a regular breaker? Did you do this just to test something, or did you leave it like this? Hope you dont kill anyone.....
 

TexasMaster

Member
Location
Lubbock Texas
don't know if I'am to late to help but mabey a month ago I learned no manufacture makes a 60 gfci w/ a load side neutral terminal, if this tub uses a neutral you need to contact the spa manufacture and see if there is a kit to split up the 120s from the 220 ie a 20cfi ckt and 40 gfi ckt. Or you just have to take your chances / a 50 amp.
 
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