Question on a ground wire leaving a metal box

Status
Not open for further replies.

69gp

Senior Member
Location
MA
The below picture is of a bare ground wire leaving a 200 AMP Disconnect for a main service. The ground wire is not fastened as it passes through the metal enclosure. Could not find anything in the code to the affect of this being a code violation other than not being neat and workman like.

Is this acceptable to the code to be installed like this?

IMG_20141217_082227361.jpg
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
GEC. Grounding Electrode Conductor.

They're installed like this all the time. Perfectly legal, despite what the makers of the Kenny Clamp say.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I have used NM connectors for it as well but in truth that is a violation we could be cited for.

I agree, not a big deal but definitely not within the listing of a NM connector. I wonder why they can't make a 20 cent NM style connector for this application. :?
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
Could not find anything in the code to the affect of this being a code violation other than not being neat and workman like.

Is this acceptable to the code to be installed like this?

That's your opinion. If you call a ground wire exiting the bottom of a panel without some sort of clamp or bushing "not neat or workman like" than I'm afraid you don't know what a normal electricial installation should look like. If you did this for a living you'd know, just like the other electricians on this board do, that pretty much all loadcenters come with a small factory knockout at the bottom for the ground wire to pass through.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Most likely a Grounding Electrode Conductor and if it is it's fine. What good would a connector do?

not so much of a "connector", but perhaps some sort of clamping requirement like NM into plastic boxes, just so an accidental pull on the wire from an outside source doesnt yank the wire on the inside of the panel. no NEC requirement?? there should be. imagine that copper enters the panel, crosses down low and up one side to the gnd bar, then the wire is yanked and now all of a sudden that copper is draping across perhaps both live bus bars..... NEC should have a general rule that any wire entering a panel that is not inside a terminated conduit should be secured to prevent accidental yanking.

and just curious, the OP pic shows two copper ropes, a light colored one that enters the panel, and dark colored one that goes where??
 
Last edited:

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I agree, not a big deal but definitely not within the listing of a NM connector. I wonder why they can't make a 20 cent NM style connector for this application. :?
After getting a listing for grounding it will add at least $5.00 the selling price - just because it is listed for grounding.:happyyes:

not so much of a "connector", but perhaps some sort of clamping requirement like NM into plastic boxes, just so an accidental pull on the wire from an outside source doesnt yank the wire on the inside of the panel. no NEC requirement?? there should be. imagine that copper enters the panel, crosses down low and up one side to the gnd bar, then the wire is yanked and now all of a sudden that copper is draping across perhaps both live bus bars..... NEC should have a general rule that any wire entering a panel that is not inside a terminated conduit should be secured to prevent accidental yanking.

and just curious, the OP pic shows two copper ropes, a light colored one that enters the panel, and dark colored one that goes where??

Don't know that I entirely agree with the need to clamp the conductor to the enclosure. Just routing it so it is reasonably protected and securing it in a reasonable manner will eliminate a lot of potential issues. If it is pulled on and shorts to a bus bar - the main breaker will open, it is usually not quite so easy for it to short to terminals of service conductors.

two copper ropes - I see the one going to the right below the panel cabinet - maybe a bonding jumper from one electrode to another?
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
Don't know that I entirely agree with the need to clamp the conductor to the enclosure. Just routing it so it is reasonably protected and securing it in a reasonable manner will eliminate a lot of potential issues. If it is pulled on and shorts to a bus bar - the main breaker will open, it is usually not quite so easy for it to short to terminals of service conductors.
i dont mean a clamp between box and wire, just a requirement to secure the wire within say 8" of the panel entry point. or the panel maker includes a small nipple w/ side screw that connects to the small knockout and then the gnd wire passes through it, side screw locks the wire in place, etc....

a panel with say just 60% of breaker spaces used (typically filled from top down) leaves the pole bus bars exposed where there are no breakers..... plenty of opportunity for a unsecured yanked wire to touch one of those unprotected areas.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
a panel with say just 60% of breaker spaces used (typically filled from top down) leaves the pole bus bars exposed where there are no breakers..... plenty of opportunity for a unsecured yanked wire to touch one of those unprotected areas.

Depends on panel bus style. When it comes to plug on style breakers/panels, current QO style have fairly well protected bus. Cutler Hammer CH style isn't too bad either, though it maybe has a little more exposed bus. All 1 inch wide "interchangeable" styles present a much greater opportunity for something like that to happen.
 

69gp

Senior Member
Location
MA
The below picture is of a bare ground wire leaving a 200 AMP Disconnect for a main service. The ground wire is not fastened as it passes through the metal enclosure. Could not find anything in the code to the affect of this being a code violation other than not being neat and workman like.

Is this acceptable to the code to be installed like this?

IMG_20141217_082227361.jpg

IMG_20141217_144146188.jpg

The above picture shows how the wire is installed inside the switch. This is not from the same disconnect that is in the first pic but typical for all the switches on the site. And yes I know there is no bushing on the conduit. Project was not done by us.


just to clarify.

1) This is not a load center but 1 of 4- 200 amp 480 volt fused disconnects for a service.

2) I do not believe that this is a factory hole.

3) As some of you have been talking you can see my concern for the wire not being fastened at the box. If for some reason the wire gets pulled it could hit the fuse holder.

4) As for me not knowing what a normal electrical installation looks like I have been in the electrical field for over 40 years. 99% industrial / commercial and 1% residential. over 24 years of that so far as a contractor with a 30 man shop. The way I was taught and still do it to this day is a chase nipple / locknut and then a bonding bushing. Sure might not be required, might be overkill but I will never have a wire pushed into a buss-bar.

5) All I was i was asking is if it is legal to install the ground wire like this.
 

69gp

Senior Member
Location
MA
IMG_20141217_144146188.jpg

The above picture shows how the wire is installed inside the switch. This is not from the same disconnect that is in the first pic but typical for all the switches on the site. And yes I know there is no bushing on the conduit. Project was not done by us.


just to clarify.

1) This is not a load center but 1 of 4- 200 amp 480 volt fused disconnects for a service.

2) I do not believe that this is a factory hole.

3) As some of you have been talking you can see my concern for the wire not being fastened at the box. If for some reason the wire gets pulled it could hit the fuse holder.

4) As for me not knowing what a normal electrical installation looks like I have been in the electrical field for over 40 years. 99% industrial / commercial and 1% residential. over 24 years of that so far as a contractor with a 30 man shop. The way I was taught and still do it to this day is a chase nipple / locknut and then a bonding bushing. Sure might not be required, might be overkill but I will never have a wire pushed into a buss-bar.

5) All I was i was asking is if it is legal to install the ground wire like this. Not a critique of my knowledge.
 

FionaZuppa

Senior Member
Location
AZ
Occupation
Part Time Electrician (semi retired, old) - EE retired.
is using a hole not provided by the manufacturer legal by NEC (if in fact this was drilled and not a knockout)? i see in that pic a small knockout behnd the conduit, ...... not used knockout, etc.
 

meternerd

Senior Member
Location
Athol, ID
Occupation
retired water & electric utility electrician, meter/relay tech
[The above picture shows how the wire is installed inside the switch. This is not from the same disconnect that is in the first pic but typical for all the switches on the site. And yes I know there is no bushing on the conduit. Project was not done by us.]

I have never had much luck getting any kind of bushing to stay on a PVC connector. As a utility, I quit even looking for one on PVC. Is there a code requirement? I don't see an issue puling wire into a box with no plastic bushing if it's PVC conduit. Just curious. Inspectors here could care less about the POCO section of a service panel. I've had to have the contractors fix many a problem because of it.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top