Switch rating question

Status
Not open for further replies.

Wyeman94

Member
Location
MI
Existing : at most 2.3 amps of fluorescent load at 120V, 12AWG protected by 20A circuit with a SPST toggle switch.

1) Is it permissable to install a switch rated 6 amp, 120V in place of the toggle switch?

2) If yes, what if the 6 amp switch includes 18AWG leads?? The owner desires a pull-chain switch and manufacturers of such have 18AWG leads standard. Would this violate conductor branch circuit overcurrent protection? I doubt it would make much difference if it had 12AWG leads.
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/images/RACO/Specialty Switches/PDF/D2.pdf

My gut feeling is that this would be unacceptable since these devices are made for appliances, but can't seem to quite put my finger on it.
Thoughts?
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Existing : at most 2.3 amps of fluorescent load at 120V, 12AWG protected by 20A circuit with a SPST toggle switch.

1) Is it permissable to install a switch rated 6 amp, 120V in place of the toggle switch?

2) If yes, what if the 6 amp switch includes 18AWG leads?? The owner desires a pull-chain switch and manufacturers of such have 18AWG leads standard. Would this violate conductor branch circuit overcurrent protection? I doubt it would make much difference if it had 12AWG leads.
http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/images/RACO/Specialty Switches/PDF/D2.pdf

My gut feeling is that this would be unacceptable since these devices are made for appliances, but can't seem to quite put my finger on it.
Thoughts?

I think not, this is my reasoning....
The switch is not approved as part of a chapter 3 wiring method. One would never know how that switch circuit could be loaded as any one could decide to add, say, 10 more lights. However, if you install the switch in the fixture itself I think it would be OK.
That's my story, others may disagree.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Is this switch being used inside the fixture? In that case I would think it is compliant but not as a wall switch controlling other lights. I don't know how they are listed.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
I think not, this is my reasoning....
The switch is not approved as part of a chapter 3 wiring method. One would never know how that switch circuit could be loaded as any one could decide to add, say, 10 more lights. However, if you install the switch in the fixture itself I think it would be OK.
That's my story, others may disagree.

Your conclusions may be right, but I see a potential flaw in the reasoning. You can put a 15A switch on a 20A lighting circuit, and that would have the same potential limitations. I don't know about the legality as a whole, but when I first read the question, I thought about the 15A switch scenario.
 

suemarkp

Senior Member
Location
Kent, WA
Occupation
Retired Engineer
I think choice 1 is OK (you can use a switch with an amp rating less than the circuit amp rating). There are many switches available now that have 6 to 8 amp ratings. An example is the leviton combination GFCI receptacle and switch (switch is a small lever and limited to 8 amps I think). The switch needs to be rated for the load connected to it.

Whether you can use that exact switch may depend on its listing. Not sure about that aspect of the answer.
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Well the older dimmer switches had 16 gauge wire but don't seem to have that anymore. I wonder if the standards for that has changed.

All the 600 watt dimmers with wire leads I install still have 16 gauge wires. I have not noticed any change in wire sizes. Some manufactures are starting to use screw terminals for the new models.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
Your conclusions may be right, but I see a potential flaw in the reasoning. You can put a 15A switch on a 20A lighting circuit, and that would have the same potential limitations. I don't know about the legality as a whole, but when I first read the question, I thought about the 15A switch scenario.

Well, my logic maybe flawed. Also, as others said, what about dimmers that are 600 watt/16 ga. Can I still hang my hat on it not being approved for a chapter 3 method?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
IMO a switch is not part of the chapter 3 wiring method at all. The switch is a seperate device that is typically listed for a specific use. If you use it according to the manufacturer's instructions, you are fine.

JMNSHO.
 

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
Yup, we've stumbled on yet another instance of the NEC not being consistant.

One would think that everything up to the appliance needed to be rated for the OCPD - and you would be wrong. It seems that, while we can't downsize the wire after the switch, we often do downsize the switch itself.

Even ordinary toggle switches often have 10 amp ratings. Others have mentioned dimmers. While the NEC does not explicitly say you can do this, the practice in common enough that it must have been assumed by many to be allowed.

For example, I cannot fathom UL listing something not allowed by the NEC - yet they list all manner of switches that are obviously going to be used on 15 or 20-amp circuits, yet are rated at much less. Since the folks ay UL are no dummies, I'm suresomeone noticed this- and was told 'don't worry.'
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Well, my logic maybe flawed. Also, as others said, what about dimmers that are 600 watt/16 ga. Can I still hang my hat on it not being approved for a chapter 3 method?

I hope I made it plain that I wasnn't making any judgment on your conclusions because I haven't done the leg work. It was just that one issue that I was addressing. My instinct (without research or back up) is that the chapter 3 portion is probably correct.
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
I hope I made it plain that I wasnn't making any judgment on your conclusions because I haven't done the leg work. It was just that one issue that I was addressing. My instinct (without research or back up) is that the chapter 3 portion is probably correct.

It seems that this seemingly simple question from the OP is not as straight forward as it appears. Many have made good points. It's an interesting excercise in technicalities.
 

Wyeman94

Member
Location
MI
Thanks all for confirming I didn't miss something obvious. It seems to be one of those instances where it may be allowed if not expressly disallowed. Or simply be considered unwise/unstandard in terms of design. Interesting to note that it looks like those pull chain switches could mount in a single communications metallic faceplate (.375").
After some discussion, I'm confident they will be OK with Leviton's wireless switch + handheld remote.
 
Last edited:

jumper

Senior Member
For example, I cannot fathom UL listing something not allowed by the NEC - yet they list all manner of switches that are obviously going to be used on 15 or 20-amp circuits, yet are rated at much less. Since the folks ay UL are no dummies, I'm suresomeone noticed this- and was told 'don't worry.'

What about those electronic switches/sensors that use the EGC as a neutral, seems that by NEC standards that it is illegal, but they are UL listed.

404.2(C) in 2011 was created to cover ULs screw up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top