Troubleshooting

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resistance

Senior Member
Location
WA
Has anyone else went out to troubleshoot, and couldn't find the problem? Well, it happen to me today. I actually gave up, and referred the job. Decided not to charge the customer, so they could use their money towards my referral. I normally find problems within 30 minutes. Today, that didn't happen :(.

I really need to upgrade my troubleshooting tools. Something that will trace wires in the walls with "pin point" accuracy!! My tools didn't do it today. Actually, my tool didn't do anything but make static:mad:!!!
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
We almost never quit until we find the problem. If I can't find the problem the first time I'm out there, it'll bother me to no end thinking about it all the time, until I can get back out there the next time to figure it out.

If it's something over my head such as plc's or some intricate piece of machinery I'll have them call in the factory tech if it's something that can't be explained to me over the phone. I definitely don't know everything but I'm not scared to call for reinforcements....:cool:
 

resistance

Senior Member
Location
WA
Care to share what the symptoms were?
No power. Anyway, the customer called me. My referral found the problem--it was hidden behind the bed. Wire was burnt loose!!! Oh well, I'm not perfect.

Like I said, a good tracer would have lead me there. The house had a ton a personal stuff against the walls, so having the correct tool would have made the job much easier. I couldn't go through, and undo each box---seeing that each wall had a ton of stuff in the way. If i could have, then I would have found it.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
We almost never quit until we find the problem. If I can't find the problem the first time I'm out there, it'll bother me to no end thinking about it all the time, until I can get back out there the next time to figure it out.

If it's something over my head such as plc's or some intricate piece of machinery I'll have them call in the factory tech if it's something that can't be explained to me over the phone. I definitely don't know everything but I'm not scared to call for reinforcements....:cool:

I was like Cow. Walked away promising to be back when maybe I was just more rested. Many a night woke up and said "got it!" Even if what I thought wasn't it, it usually put me closer than I had been. I never had more than the tools in my pouch.

And never ever let the POCO off the hook, just because they say it's not theirs.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
I got to tell you I would have been hard pressed to walk away empty handed these days ,..I get paid my rate whether I'm moving furniture or running wire. How do expect to buy that diagnostic tool ?, they ain't cheap. And when you do get one ,please don't give it away ,..charge accordingly Heck ,.sounds like a back wire issue ,..he'll probably get a device change out of the deal ,. since he can show how nasty those back wired connections are:)
 
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Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
I have OCD I will tear the whole house apart if I had to. But, I WILL
figure out, find and fix the problem. I too, am not above calling Tech
support to aid me in a finding a solution to a problem.:)
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
I have OCD I will tear the whole house apart if I had to. But, I WILL
figure out, find and fix the problem. I too, am not above calling Tech
support to aid me in a finding a solution to a problem.:)

I have CDO, it's the same thing, but the letters are in alphabetical order like they should be.:grin:
 

rt66electric

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
six tries

six tries

It took me at least six tries to fix the Little-ol-lady's problem. 1st try- reset breaker. 2nd try -check recently installed bath gfci done by others. 3rd try replaced wire from panel to attic j-box tripped breaker and junior held the breaker on until it ---smoked in his hand... the probable cause was a tv set that had been dropped on the floor. 4th try again found bad extension cord /Lamp cords?? 5th try unplugged everything and wait.... 6th try return to find what has been plugged in---- noticed the wall-wart/receptacle next to the bed, and that when she crashed her rascal/power wheelchair into the bed for the evening , it slammed the receptacleinto the metal j-box. problemsolved??? Do ya really think I could have charged the widow of the man that was one of the greatest "HELLFIRE and DAMNAATION preachers this side of the Pecos river??
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
It took me at least six tries to fix the Little-ol-lady's problem. 1st try- reset breaker. 2nd try -check recently installed bath gfci done by others. 3rd try replaced wire from panel to attic j-box tripped breaker and junior held the breaker on until it ---smoked in his hand... the probable cause was a tv set that had been dropped on the floor. 4th try again found bad extension cord /Lamp cords?? 5th try unplugged everything and wait.... 6th try return to find what has been plugged in---- noticed the wall-wart/receptacle next to the bed, and that when she crashed her rascal/power wheelchair into the bed for the evening , it slammed the receptacleinto the metal j-box. problemsolved??? Do ya really think I could have charged the widow of the man that was one of the greatest "HELLFIRE and DAMNAATION preachers this side of the Pecos river??

Why not ? Was she broke ?
 

Cow

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Oregon
Occupation
Electrician
It took me at least six tries to fix the Little-ol-lady's problem. 1st try- reset breaker. 2nd try -check recently installed bath gfci done by others. 3rd try replaced wire from panel to attic j-box tripped breaker and junior held the breaker on until it ---smoked in his hand... the probable cause was a tv set that had been dropped on the floor. 4th try again found bad extension cord /Lamp cords?? 5th try unplugged everything and wait.... 6th try return to find what has been plugged in---- noticed the wall-wart/receptacle next to the bed, and that when she crashed her rascal/power wheelchair into the bed for the evening , it slammed the receptacleinto the metal j-box. problemsolved??? Do ya really think I could have charged the widow of the man that was one of the greatest "HELLFIRE and DAMNAATION preachers this side of the Pecos river??

So megging the circuit from the get go might of saved you five additional trips out there??
 

pitkas

Member
Location
Alaska
I do service work and that problem always sits at the back of my mind. Luckly, we have a couple of hot shots at our shop that will help out if needed.
 

iMuse97

Senior Member
Location
Chicagoland
How about the Greenlee:
http://www.professionalequipment.com/greenlee-circuit-tracer-2011/circuit-tracers/

the 2011 has:
Features & Applications:

No need for power interruption - the Greenlee? Circuit Tracer works on live or dead wiring and incorporates auto gain circuitry for enhanced accuracy. The receiver will operate up to a 4 miles from the transmitter. Locate and identify breakers, fuses, blown fuses, junction boxes, shorts to ground, breaks in wires; trace concealed wiring in both metallic and nonmetallic conduit. Its easy-to-read display is equipped with instant visual indicators and clear audio indicators.

Features:
  • Auto shut-off
  • Rugged case with mounted operating information
  • Transmitter
  • Receiver
  • 2-9V batteries
  • Case
Applications:
  • Traces circuits in both metallic and nonmetallic conduit
  • Finds breaks in wires and shorts to ground
  • Incorporates auto gain circuitry for enhanced accuracy
  • Locates and identifies blown fuses
  • Supports tranmitter-to-receiver distances up to 4 miles (6.5km)
    for closed circuit tracing.
Spec Summary:

Capacity:
Auto off:
Case size:
Weight:
Distance:
0-600V AC/DC
Transmitter, 30 min.; Receiver, selectable
14" x 12" x 4" (355 x 305 x 102mm)
3.56 lbs. (1615g)
3,000 ft. to 4 mi. (varies with application)
 

M. D.

Senior Member
" you say you need an electrician, well I just had an electrical problem solved by Joe,.. but Bob , the electrician that walked away , he's the one you really want to hire"

you really think it works that way??
 

e57

Senior Member
No power. Anyway, the customer called me. My referral found the problem--it was hidden behind the bed. Wire was burnt loose!!! Oh well, I'm not perfect.

Like I said, a good tracer would have lead me there. The house had a ton a personal stuff against the walls, so having the correct tool would have made the job much easier. I couldn't go through, and undo each box---seeing that each wall had a ton of stuff in the way. If i could have, then I would have found it.
If the problems in a box even without a tracer - I'll take the whole house apart and get to every box I can find... I'll open them all and ring them out - then make a diagram of the circuits to aid in locating the fault. It helps a lot.... Open and re-do every splice once I know where each cable in each box goes. For stuff not in boxes, and hidden boxes I use a regular phone tone generator (ON DEAD ISOLATED CONDUCTORS) and also a TDR which gives a length to certain anomalies like shorts opens and even splices good or bad - it too can help a lot, but takes a bit of practice and interpretation. But I have found if you can trace a path, and get a length of path to the fault then you can find quite a lot... Hidden boxes, flying splices, screws in wire all sorts of fun stuff....

Anyway - the best tool is your head...

" you say you need an electrician, well I just had an electrical problem solved by Joe,.. but Bob , the electrician that walked away , he's the one you really want to hire"

you really think it works that way??
Depending on the interaction of the day - they might say he was a fair and honest player - to many that is worth much more. Bob might also do the same too...
 
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