Careful Not to Oversell

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growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
If you have an older vehicle and take it in for service do they try to upsell you all the latest safety standards that are installed on new cars?

An auto repair shop will normally stay away from doing custom work. Installing an air bag on an older car would be custom work. But for the standard proceedures that are offered by the repair shop they will try to sell as many of these as possible. Belts, hoses, wiper blades, batteries or if it's a dealer they just try to sell a whole new car.

An upsell for a house can be as little as a GFCI receptacle for a bathroom and not a complete rewire. Or even to check and replace bad smoke detectors. This could easily by compared to an auto repair shop that offers to replace wiper blades.
 

xformer

Senior Member
Location
Dallas, Tx
Occupation
Master Electrician
Do insurance companies require a homeowner to upgrade existing homes before they insure them? If they do, IMHO then up selling would be warranted under those conditions or any additional conditions that involve safety. I understand that business have to make money in order to stay in business. I also believe in being honest with the customer and selling the customer a product that best suits the needs of the customer.
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Do insurance companies require a homeowner to upgrade existing homes before they insure them? If they do, IMHO then up selling would be warranted under those conditions or any additional conditions that involve safety. I understand that business have to make money in order to stay in business. I also believe in being honest with the customer and selling the customer a product that best suits the needs of the customer.

Thank you, my point exactly.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
An auto repair shop will normally stay away from doing custom work. Installing an air bag on an older car would be custom work. But for the standard proceedures that are offered by the repair shop they will try to sell as many of these as possible. Belts, hoses, wiper blades, batteries or if it's a dealer they just try to sell a whole new car.

An upsell for a house can be as little as a GFCI receptacle for a bathroom and not a complete rewire. Or even to check and replace bad smoke detectors. This could easily by compared to an auto repair shop that offers to replace wiper blades.

But telling a homeowner that they need GFCI's, AFCI's, TR & WR receptacles in places where they were not originally required is a little like installing newer standard equipment on an old car. When they try to sell you new spark plugs, windshield wipers, shocks, tires they are selling you an original equivelant or at least close to that. Now if they tell you that you need a high performance camshaft or that you should add a turbocharger would be more like the EC trying to sell the GFCI's, AFCI's etc for something that works otherwise.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
But telling a homeowner that they need GFCI's, AFCI's, TR & WR receptacles in places where they were not originally required is a little like installing newer standard equipment on an old car. When they try to sell you new spark plugs, windshield wipers, shocks, tires they are selling you an original equivelant or at least close to that. Now if they tell you that you need a high performance camshaft or that you should add a turbocharger would be more like the EC trying to sell the GFCI's, AFCI's etc for something that works otherwise.

Trying to compare the technology used in the construction of a house and a car is just not the same. With an automobile the customer is expected to trade up for the new technology every few years but with a house they would be expected to keep the same house and upgrade the safety technology.

Imagine the year is 1911 and family has a new house built and buys a new Stanley Steamer automobile. In the last 100 years they probably bought a new car every 5 years and the technology has been upgraded 20 times. Members of that same family may still be living in the same house ( great grand children) because it cheaper to repair than build a new house. Should they still be living with the same technology available in 1911.
 

satcom

Senior Member
But telling a homeowner that they need GFCI's, AFCI's, TR & WR receptacles in places where they were not originally required is a little like installing newer standard equipment on an old car. When they try to sell you new spark plugs, windshield wipers, shocks, tires they are selling you an original equivelant or at least close to that. Now if they tell you that you need a high performance camshaft or that you should add a turbocharger would be more like the EC trying to sell the GFCI's, AFCI's etc for something that works otherwise.

An upsale can also be a new product or service, the auto parts replacement is not an up sell, it is a part replacement
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Well, my original point was that I might have gotten the job if I had quoted the most basic job I could do & still meet standards. I planned on using j boxes to reconnect to home runs, run a new feeder from meter base to indoor panel, put ocp outside. Was going to install AFI's, replace existing old smokeheads add 1 more. I also quoted removing and replacing devices and plates. I could have left devices; receps still held a plug & switches still had their tension. That would save. Insp may have let me stay with standard breakers, as they were already in place, panel HR's were in place & I was just replacing in between. Sometimes, we can be grandfathered in that way.

I may have been able to get the price down 200 or 300 and possibly get the job, making a little profit. As it is, I got 100% of nothing.

A landlord can't always think the same on a rental property as his own house. Rental houses tend to get a lot of hard use & sometimes severe abuse. I've helped clean out a few of them after destructive tenants & seen firsthand. If something in a rental is in usable condition, his instinct is to leave it alone & don't fix what ain't broke. I often look at a job as "here, you can fix the problems & also be totally up to date with your other details, in 1 job". That's a good sell to someone in his own home, if he has the $. But a landlord will not often think that way. He's trying to get the machine running to produce income & do it at moderate expense. I have to start thinking that way within the bounds of what is safe & legal for me to do.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
Trying to compare the technology used in the construction of a house and a car is just not the same. With an automobile the customer is expected to trade up for the new technology every few years but with a house they would be expected to keep the same house and upgrade the safety technology.

Expected by whom? if they wish there is no law in United States of America that can require them to upgrade, but that is there choice, that is the freedom we are supposed to enjoy, as I have said on here many times, we are allowed to live as dangerously as we wish, that is our right and the Constitution protects that right.
I have helped quite a few home owners fight against a few inspectors around here who have tried to violate these peoples rights, and they won every time.


Imagine the year is 1911 and family has a new house built and buys a new Stanley Steamer automobile. In the last 100 years they probably bought a new car every 5 years and the technology has been upgraded 20 times. Members of that same family may still be living in the same house ( great grand children) because it cheaper to repair than build a new house. Should they still be living with the same technology available in 1911.

And that 1911 Stanley Steamer is still legal today to drive down the road.
I ask this: If the EPA, NTSB, and a few others can not force you to upgrade your cars to todays safety and emission standards, how does a state or local AHJ or inspector think they can?

Trust me in the real world of law they can't if you fight back.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Expected by whom? if they wish there is no law in United States of America that can require them to upgrade, but that is there choice, that is the freedom we are supposed to enjoy, as I have said on here many times, we are allowed to live as dangerously as we wish, that is our right and the Constitution protects that right.
I have helped quite a few home owners fight against a few inspectors around here who have tried to violate these peoples rights, and they won every time.




And that 1911 Stanley Steamer is still legal today to drive down the road.
I ask this: If the EPA, NTSB, and a few others can not force you to upgrade your cars to todays safety and emission standards, how does a state or local AHJ or inspector think they can?

Trust me in the real world of law they can't if you fight back.


Hurk I have no idea what you are talking about. You are trying to defend people's rights against laws or some sort of force that was not mentioned.

The word used was "Expected" and if you are not familiar with it meaning it has nothing to do with forceing people to comply with any regulation.

There are no laws requiring you to change your underwear and yet you may be "expected" to do so because it is "Normal" to do so.

If you post anything on this forum you can "expect" someone to take your statement completely out of context. No law requiring them to do so but it can be expected ( supposed, probable, assumed ).

Now back to expected by "whom". As a salesperson trying to upsale electrical items it can be "expected" that if you explain the safety features of say a GFCI protected receptacle over a standard receptacle that a certain number of people will wish to purchase. The reason it can be expected is because you see a lot of newer receptacles in older homes and it can be expected that people will buy newer cars because you see very few stanley steamers on the road.

This is just what people do. Thus Expected.
 

jmellc

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
Occupation
Facility Maintenance Tech. Licensed Electrician
Expected by whom? if they wish there is no law in United States of America that can require them to upgrade, but that is there choice, that is the freedom we are supposed to enjoy, as I have said on here many times, we are allowed to live as dangerously as we wish, that is our right and the Constitution protects that right.
I have helped quite a few home owners fight against a few inspectors around here who have tried to violate these peoples rights, and they won every time.




And that 1911 Stanley Steamer is still legal today to drive down the road.
I ask this: If the EPA, NTSB, and a few others can not force you to upgrade your cars to todays safety and emission standards, how does a state or local AHJ or inspector think they can?

Trust me in the real world of law they can't if you fight back.

Until recently, I've seen some wiring from approximately 1911 era that was still in fair condition & didn't urge people to replace until they wanted to. The wiring had never been overloaded, they were using moderate loads still. I did urge some of them to update kitchen receps to GFI.

I have now started urging replacement of knob/tube & BX, as most of it I see now is frayed & needing replacement. Insurance co's are increasingly reluctant to insure houses with it, so they're overall probably seeing more fires from it.
 
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