LED Recessed lights

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mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I'm getting ready to wire a kitchen remodel and I'm questioning the owners choice of recessed lights. They are LED, 12 Watts with a light output similar to an 80 watt halogen. They fit in "most" 6" recess housings. The unit is a bulb and trim together and it screws into the medium base bulb holder. The site has links that shows compatible housings and some other instructions but the links don't work.

http://www.environmentallights.com/products/12240/LED_6_inch_ceiling_can_2700K_LR6_screw_in

I'm wondering about the following issues:

In choosing a lamp and trim for a given housing don't I have to use what is listed in the instructions? I'm sure I won't find the LED bulb/trim from another manufacturer listed. I assume the inspector could reject the product at the final inspection.

If the unit screws into the housing socket it would seem dificult to get enough tension to have the unit sit flush with the ceiling. If that is true it will look lousy. Retention clips are mentioned in another nonworking link.

Anybody have any experience with the product? Anybody see any other issues?

Mike
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
the links work for me..........check your adobe updates, maybe? The links all lead to the same document it seems.

Thanks. I suspected the site had a problem because I can open any other PDF that I have tried on other sites. I'll have to figure out how to check adobe updates.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
I looked quickly but didn't find anything that had similar lumens. The product my customer wants is 650 lumens. I also worry that if I pick a product they don't like I'm mud. If they pick a product they don't like I can fix their problem at their expense.

Never, ever, pick out fixtures for a customer. That is not a good idea for the reason you stated.
 

Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
I looked quickly but didn't find anything that had similar lumens. The product my customer wants is 650 lumens. I also worry that if I pick a product they don't like I'm mud. If they pick a product they don't like I can fix their problem at their expense.


Yeah, esspecially as exspensive as they are. You should have them go to the local lighting store and have the lighting dealer make their order.

Also I would think with the trims they picked out. You would think they would come with a lableing to fit several brands of can lights.
I never used them, they look heavy.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
the links work for me..........check your adobe updates, maybe? The links all lead to the same document it seems.

I updated Adobe Reader from 7.0 to 9.0 and now I can open the links at the site.

I learned:

The LED unit connects to the edison base socket but it appears to hang from clips that rotate and grab the side wall of the housing. It doesn't hang from the socket as I thought.

There is a statement on the last page.."We are writing to you to certify that the LR6 and LR4 series of products are certified to meet UL standards". Kind of an unusual way to indicate it meets UL.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
That's ridiculous. Part of being a professional is having the knowledge, experience and ability to spec materials such as fixtures.

I agree with you if we are selecting non-decorative lighting such as recess lights. But in this case the customer wants LED (selected by him) for their kitchen recess. Something I have no experience with.

It would not surprise me if the customer doesn't like what he picked let alone what I might substitute as an alternative LED fixture.

I'm not even sure they meet code because the housings are made by a different manufacturer and I suspect no manufacturer will have this product listed on the housing label for acceptable lamps/trims. The claim to be certified to meet UL standards also worries me.

I'm just trying to flush out all the problems before I start work so I can look like I know what I am doing.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Where is the installation?

Screw in lamps do not meet California title 24 standards for high efficacy fixtures. Only fixtures that can only accept high efficacy lamps would pass.

The job is in a Massachusetts home where that is not an issue. Seller claims to be CA code compliant by having the installer change the bulb socket to a GU24 interlock format.

In Mass, or any other state, I wonder how it is code compliant to modify a fixture to GU24, or in my state, where the standard edison base is OK, where do I get the autority to install this new product into a housing that does not have it listed as an acceptable bulb or trim.
 
Awesome Product... highly recommended

Awesome Product... highly recommended

Hey MKGrady,

I can tell you that the LR6 and LR4 are awesome products. For more information on these, check out www.winderlumenled.com.

Please note that advertisements . . . and solicitations are inappropriate on this forum. I have removed the statements that I consider 'puffing' your products. Instead of just deleting this post, I have left it up since it does provide some help to the OP. Charlie
 
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Buck Parrish

Senior Member
Location
NC & IN
Hey MKGrady,

I can tell you that the LR6 and LR4 are awesome products. For more information on these, check out www.winderlumenled.com.

Please note that advertisements . . . and solicitations are inappropriate on this forum. I have removed the statements that I consider 'puffing' your products. Instead of just deleting this post, I have left it up since it does provide some help to the OP. Charlie

Thanks , Charlie for leaving it on. I may not buy any now. But every body is talking about LED's. So it is good to know what is on the market.

IMO As soon as they figure out how to make an LED burn out. They will start selling the bulbs a lot cheaper.
Other wise the bulb company might go out of bussiness.:D
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
Hey MKGrady,

I can tell you that the LR6 and LR4 are awesome products. For more information on these, check out www.winderlumenled.com.

Please note that advertisements . . . and solicitations are inappropriate on this forum. I have removed the statements that I consider 'puffing' your products. Instead of just deleting this post, I have left it up since it does provide some help to the OP. Charlie

I'd say that you missed something on the edit Charlie......

IMO this post should be deleted.

We either enforce the forum rules or we don't.
 
Apologies

Apologies

I apologize. I'm new to this forum, and I was just trying to be helpful because someone had referred me to the post. One thing that was edited out of my post that I feel is important factual information is that the products do exceed DOE Energy Star criteria for solid state lighting and that they won awards at Lighting for Tomorrow the last two years.

Again, I apologize for the offense. Good luck.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Hey MKGrady,

I can tell you that the LR6 and LR4 are awesome products. For more information on these, check out www.winderlumenled.com.

Please note that advertisements . . . and solicitations are inappropriate on this forum. I have removed the statements that I consider 'puffing' your products. Instead of just deleting this post, I have left it up since it does provide some help to the OP. Charlie

Thanks Charlie for not closing this.

I still need to know: Can I put this new LED recess and trim into another manufacturers recess housing? The supplier says I can in their literature.

Don't I have to follow the list of acceptable bulbs and trims that comes with the housing?

Is there a code section that I can point my customer to if I tell him this can't meet code if that is the case?
 

Mr. Bill

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
There is a statement on the last page.."We are writing to you to certify that the LR6 and LR4 series of products are certified to meet UL standards". Kind of an unusual way to indicate it meets UL.
It sounds messed up to me too. Does the product have the UL label on it? The way this is worded sounds like a play on words to me and I don't suspect that it is UL listed. It's like saying a building is designed to meet LEED standards but there's no plaque on the wall saying it's a LEED building because no one submitted the required paperwork to USGBC.
 
Thanks Charlie for not closing this.

I still need to know: Can I put this new LED recess and trim into another manufacturers recess housing? The supplier says I can in their literature.

Don't I have to follow the list of acceptable bulbs and trims that comes with the housing?

Is there a code section that I can point my customer to if I tell him this can't meet code if that is the case?

Yes, as long as it is a cylindrical housing, you can install the LR6 using those clips. The unit is IC rated and produces virtually no heat. Tested and certified to UL standards and suitable for damp locations. There is also a can compatibility list published by the manufacturer as well that you can reference if you have the part number for the housing.

The unit is meant for retrofit, but in new construction, there is also a housing from the manufacturer that has a max load of 12W, which is a benefit to contractors that are trying to bring down their Watts/sq. ft calcs.

I hope this helps you.
 
It sounds messed up to me too. Does the product have the UL label on it? The way this is worded sounds like a play on words to me and I don't suspect that it is UL listed. It's like saying a building is designed to meet LEED standards but there's no plaque on the wall saying it's a LEED building because no one submitted the required paperwork to USGBC.

Yes, it has the UL label and lists that it conforms to UL STD 1598 and certified to CSA STD C22.2.
 
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