GFI in attic

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zcanyonboltz

Senior Member
Location
denver
Homeowner wants a an outlet in the attic, there is no equipment up there. Is there a section about GFI in attics in dwelling units, all I'm seeing is crawl spaces and unfinished spaces.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
Not required, but I would recommend it anyway. Here is my reasoning: When you are receiving a shock, you will lose control of your muscles, and the weight of your falling body might be enough to pull your hand away from the source of the shock. In an attic, you won't have room to fall, since you are probably crawling on your knees. It's an unlikely scenario, I know, but not impossible. For a small extra cost, the owner gets a higher level of protection.
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
I would recommend installing the GFCI in an accessible location in the living area.
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
I would recommend installing the GFCI in an accessible location in the living area.
I think that would depend on the owner's intended use of the outlet. If the plan is to use portable lights or hand tools, then they would want to be able to reset the GFCI without leaving the attic. If the plan is to install something that would live in the attic but not be operated from that location (e.g., security system head end equipment), then they would not want to have to enter the attic in order to reset the GFCI.

 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Since the attic gfci is not required by 210.8 then I guess it does not need to be readily accessible. I am surprised that the NEC does not enforce readily accessible for all gfci's barring a few.
 

zcanyonboltz

Senior Member
Location
denver
A few years ago I did a house with the furnace in the attic and we put a light and a GFI up there, I remember the light is required 210.70 but ... the outlet is not required to service the equipment or it is required but not to be GFI protected?
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
210.63 states

125-volt, single-phase, 15- or
20-ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an
accessible location for the servicing of heating, airconditioning,
and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle
shall be located on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft)
of the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment.
The receptacle outlet shall not be connected

No gfci required unless installed in areas mentioned in 210.8
 

Ponchik

Senior Member
Location
CA
Occupation
Electronologist
Since the attic gfci is not required by 210.8 then I guess it does not need to be readily accessible. I am surprised that the NEC does not enforce readily accessible for all gfci's barring a few.


I only mentioned "accessible" because of convenience not to be code compliant.
 

qcroanoke

Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
Location
Roanoke, VA.
Occupation
Sorta retired........
I only mentioned "accessible" because of convenience not to be code compliant.

I would also make sure not to feed thru anything with it, big pain to crawl up in the attic to reset it every time it trips.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
There was a proposal a few cycles ago to require GFCI protection for attic receptacles but it was rejected. There is a local inspector who "wants" them installed in attics because in his eyes the A/C guy is working up there when it's hot and he's all sweaty.

2-50 Log #2390 NEC-P02
(210-8(A)(9) (New) )
Final Action: Reject
Submitter: Terry L. Schneider, Pikes Peak Regional Building Department
Recommendation:
Add new item (9) Attic spaces.
Substantiation:
When the outlet is installed in attic spaces, it is usually for equipment, such as furnaces, with duct work and other grounded material.
These present a shock hazard, that along with the potential temperatures, can easily produce death. Two electricians in Colorado have
died when laying over duct work and coming in contact with a hot wire. The hazard makes it very difficult to get remove your body if
muscle lock occurs during the shock.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement:
The submitter should supply more specific information on the incidents cited so that the panel can better understand the issue. There is
no indication that the electrocutions occurred from the installed outlet, or from some other source.
Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Affirmative: 13
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
There was a proposal a few cycles ago to require GFCI protection for attic receptacles but it was rejected. There is a local inspector who "wants" them installed in attics because in his eyes the A/C guy is working up there when it's hot and he's all sweaty.
I have gotten a red tag for the out let in the attic for heating and ac equipment not being a gfci. Then another cause we argued about the gfci he said it had to be W/R. 2004 . I think.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If a wood framed structure, and there is no HVAC equipment where is there any grounded surface that presents much for shock hazard? You can lay on the wood take your clothes off to get even more surface contact with the wood -and grab ahold of a live ungrounded conductor and never will feel anything - there is no ground potential there.

Crawl spaces at or below grade level do require GFCI protection for any 15 or 20 amp 120 volt receptacles installed in them - but you are on or below grade and typically have grounded surfaces in the area, touch an ungrounded conductor in those instances and you get shocked.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I have gotten a red tag for the out let in the attic for heating and ac equipment not being a gfci.


Simple fact is that it's not required to be GFCI protected. Any inspector saying that it is required is making up his own code unless there is a local amendment.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Simple fact is that it's not required to be GFCI protected. Any inspector saying that it is required is making up his own code unless there is a local amendment.
or too lazy, too proud, or something to look it up and confirm what he thinks is wrong. Those areas that require a citation of code section that is violated have the right idea - it helps keep inspectors honest rather then shoot from hip with what they think is right - they actually have to look it up if they are going to cite it - or get shot down if what they cite doesn't support what they say is wrong. There may be cases where they cite things from memory, but someone will call them out should their memory be wrong.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
or too lazy, too proud, or something to look it up and confirm what he thinks is wrong. Those areas that require a citation of code section that is violated have the right idea - it helps keep inspectors honest rather then shoot from hip with what they think is right - they actually have to look it up if they are going to cite it - or get shot down if what they cite doesn't support what they say is wrong. There may be cases where they cite things from memory, but someone will call them out should their memory be wrong.

And it's not only inspectors who fall into this same trap, you should hear some of the code discussions we have on the job. :D
 
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