hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
If I remember correctly SE would not have been acceptable back then, because I think the neutral was required to be insulated.
iwire said:How did you decide that only the cable has to be existing?
If you reuse an existing NM that was installed before GFCIs where required to supply a new receptacle in the bath room are you not required to provide GFCI protection?
The breaker is new, the receptacle is new, the appliance is new, the use of the circuit is new.
IMO the inspector would be well within their authority to call it a new installation ..... or they might also let it slide. :smile:
But that's akin to replacing the receptacle and breaker re: the OP, not the condcutors. We agree on the new receptacle and breaker; we disagree on the existing conductors.iwire said:If you reuse an existing NM that was installed before GFCIs where required to supply a new receptacle in the bath room are you not required to provide GFCI protection?
For NM cable, yes, but the bare conductor in SE cable is considered usable as a neutral, and was permitted as an exception.hillbilly1 said:If I remember correctly SE would not have been acceptable back then, because I think the neutral was required to be insulated.
And miss the opportunity for a really invigorating argu..., I mean, discussion? Never!iwire said:All I am really saying is I would not risk my own money counting on the inspector to say 'existing' without talking to them first.
LarryFine said:Added: Simply replacing a receptacle and a breaker is something I'd never call in.
This:iwire said:What has that got to do with the price of beans in Chicago?
Was in response to this:LarryFine said:Simply replacing a receptacle and a breaker is something I'd never call in.
Other than that, I happen to like beans, even in Chicago.iwire said:Larry, as I have always said in this thread, ultimately it will be up to the inspector to decide if this reconfigured circuit is new or existing.
All I am really saying is I would not risk my own money counting on the inspector to say 'existing' without talking to them first.
We're beyond that. The question has become: can we re-use a compliant-when-installed cable without separate neutral and EGC when we change the receptacle and breaker to a smaller rating?ItsHot said:To the op. it is simple, and Mike continues to remind us, the ocpd determines the size of the circuit. Cloths dryers require 30a circuit, so you have to have a 30a breaker!
LarryFine said:We're beyond that. The question has become: can we re-use a compliant-when-installed cable without separate neutral and EGC when we change the receptacle and breaker to a smaller rating?
LarryFine said:This:
Was in response to this:
LarryFine said:We're beyond that. The question has become: can we re-use a compliant-when-installed cable without separate neutral and EGC when we change the receptacle and breaker to a smaller rating?
I say it doesn't rise to the level of a new installation, and Bob says that it does.
If I can reach the new location with the existing cable without splicing it, yes. Existing.frizbeedog said:Or....you use the exising cable again for the range but relocate it, say, to other side of the kitchen. Recep. and breaker unchanged.
Existing?
No, no! I'm saying it's not wrong at all. I also said it wouldn't depend on an inspector's opinion because it's not something I'd get a permit and inspection on. If I did run a new circuit, I would call it in.iwire said:So what your telling me is it is only wrong if you get caught?
I obviously would disagree with that assessment, and would challenge such a decision.iwire said:The exception allows the use of the neutral as the grounding means for an existing circuit.
IMO once you have changed both the breaker size and the receptacle size and the use of the circuit it certainly can be considered by the inspector to be a new circuit.
I have no disagreement with that, and would mention my intent, if the situation calls for it.I have never said the inspector must see it as new, only that they could and before I risked my own money by guessing how the inspector will see it I would talk to the inspector and find out how they feel about.
LarryFine said:I obviously would disagree with that assessment, and would challenge such a decision.
zappy said:Customer has a range circuit he isn't using and since his panel is full i was just going to use the existing 50amp 2 pole breaker and wire for the dryer.Is this ok to put a 30amp dryer outlet on a 50amp breaker?Thank you for your help.
LarryFine said:I obviously would disagree with that assessment, and would challenge such a decision.
Based on: if the cost difference must come out of my pocket, I don't want it to.iwire said:Based on what?