Churchs

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jmsbrush

Senior Member
Location
Central Florida
I have read before on here and I can't remember who said it but the comment was!
" I have never done a church or did work for a lawyer! So with that being said ,I have never had problems with billing."

Has anyone had bad experience's with churches not wanting to pay due to no funds or for whatever reasons?

I'm asking because I would like to start bidding some.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
I've never had problems getting paid by churches, but I have had problems selling to churches. You're normally selling to a committee, and it's not set up like any traditional business model you'll ever see. It's hard to get a handle on what it is they're wanting, and it's difficult to get a decision. Lord help you if there's a change order. Small churches are much easier. You're normally just dealing with the preacher or a couple deacons. Big churches... not so much fun UNLESS they have a guy in charge of all the building and grounds, then you have a single contact. Lacking that, be prepared to beat your head against the wall.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
mdshunk said:
I've never had problems getting paid by churches, but I have had problems selling to churches. You're normally selling to a committee, and it's not set up like any traditional business model you'll ever see. It's hard to get a handle on what it is they're wanting, and it's difficult to get a decision. Lord help you if there's a change order. Small churches are much easier. You're normally just dealing with the preacher or a couple deacons. Big churches... not so much fun UNLESS they have a guy in charge of all the building and grounds, then you have a single contact. Lacking that, be prepared to beat your head against the wall.

AMEN BROTHER MARC, It's not to bad if working through a GC. Answer to him and him alone on changes. Let him deal with the committees and every one else that has a idea on how something should be done. If you are working for the Church alone HAVE IT IN THE CONTRACT any change orders must go through Mr. XXXX and change order signed BEFOR any work is done. It is hard to say no to the nice little old lady who wants extra recps. added but be sure you will be doing it for FREE
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
i've got a church i've been working on for quite awhile now. its been the most stressful job i've ever done. they have their own "contracting committee" that is handling the building. there are so many people involved and each with their own idea of how things should be done. money hasn't really been an issue though. i usually have a check within two-three days of sending an invoice.
 

ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
ceb58 said:
AMEN BROTHER MARC, It's not to bad if working through a GC. Answer to him and him alone on changes. Let him deal with the committees and every one else that has a idea on how something should be done. If you are working for the Church alone HAVE IT IN THE CONTRACT any change orders must go through Mr. XXXX and change order signed BEFOR any work is done. It is hard to say no to the nice little old lady who wants extra recps. added but be sure you will be doing it for FREE

We got a new church after they were getting nowhere with the architect many miles away. The beams would not bolt together and they quit taking calls. The electrical drawings were a mess. So much for the PE stamp.

I'm not a PE but I did the unthinkable. I redrew the electrical plans got the blessing of the local building dept. & the Mayor & Pastor.

I set up a constuction trailer and was the only full time Contractor on site. Material would arrive and I was asked to sign for it, I was asked by the Pastor to make invoices for subs, so he could pay them.

It was really strange, but everything worked out, we got a draw whenever we wanted (T & M), and I made all kinds of recomendations including HVAC.

At the dedication ceremony they had me stand up six times for recognition. Every other sub got one. They claim I saved them $50K.

That was four years ago, I made a lot of friends got a lot of new work from the members and loved every minute of it. Now I will stand by as you all tell me how crazy I was.
 

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
ohm said:
We got a new church after they were getting nowhere with the architect many miles away. The beams would not bolt together and they quit taking calls. The electrical drawings were a mess. So much for the PE stamp.

I'm not a PE but I did the unthinkable. I redrew the electrical plans got the blessing of the local building dept. & the Mayor & Pastor.

I set up a constuction trailer and was the only full time Contractor on site. Material would arrive and I was asked to sign for it, I was asked by the Pastor to make invoices for subs, so he could pay them.

It was really strange, but everything worked out, we got a draw whenever we wanted (T & M), and I made all kinds of recomendations including HVAC.

At the dedication ceremony they had me stand up six times for recognition. Every other sub got one. They claim I saved them $50K.

That was four years ago, I made a lot of friends got a lot of new work from the members and loved every minute of it. Now I will stand by as you all tell me how crazy I was.


As Quo said earlier tonight,....I love a happy ending:) Nicely done Ohm! The recognition alone has sure to have brought you a great word of mouth!!!! Not too often you hear of Contractors being praised at an opening ceremony.

Again, nicely done Partner.
 

bduda

Member
Location
Pennsylvania
I acted as the "parish representative" on the committee for a 500K church remodel. Architect brought in EE, drew up plans which were rough, really rough. Contractor brings in EC, blows the bid on the lighting fixtures and Leviton dimmer panel. Architect fights with EC, then GC fights with EC, then EE admits he's not a "hands on" guy and can't figure out how to resolve issues. EE blames problems on EC, and EC says the drawings didn't represent the work to be done. The EC finished the job without any of the emergency lighting functional, couldn't figure out how to wire it. I had to contact Leviton and have them send somebody out to figure it out. We ended up finishing the work with our own people, since everybody was out of money, time and patience.

In the end, the job turned out nice, but it was painful getting there!
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
mdshunk said:
I've never had problems getting paid by churches, but I have had problems selling to churches. You're normally selling to a committee, and it's not set up like any traditional business model you'll ever see. It's hard to get a handle on what it is they're wanting, and it's difficult to get a decision. Lord help you if there's a change order. Small churches are much easier. You're normally just dealing with the preacher or a couple deacons. Big churches... not so much fun UNLESS they have a guy in charge of all the building and grounds, then you have a single contact. Lacking that, be prepared to beat your head against the wall.

And every church I have worked at had at least one "EXPERT" electrician in the congregation. Who knew exactly the problem but could never locate the issues, but wanted to watch me, oversee me, bug me as I worked.


I acted as the "parish representative"

You're the one!
 
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Minuteman

Senior Member
While churches offer their own unique problems, I enjoy working for them and have completed projects from small to large in a variety of houses of worship over the years. I have also traveled to Mexico nine times to do electrical work at several locations with my friend, who is a missionary.

Currently we are finalizing an addition to a Methodist Church, installing new lights at a Lutheran Church, we have on going projects at three Baptist Churches, and spend a least a day or two per month working at a Catholic Church/School. All of my crew are involved in their own churches, none of which there is any current work projects.
 

ceb58

Senior Member
Location
Raeford, NC
ohm said:
That was four years ago, I made a lot of friends got a lot of new work from the members and loved every minute of it. Now I will stand by as you all tell me how crazy I was.

Not crazy just the exception to the rule. I am glad it worked out for you and I know you were compensated for your efforts.

And every church I have worked at had at least one "EXPERT" electrician in the congregation. Who knew exactly the problem but could never locate the issues, but wanted to watch me, oversee me, bug me as I worked.
That is what happened to me on my last church. I rough in for a ceiling projector where they told me it would go. Completed rough in of building, GC called me couple days later said he was calling for inspection. He knows I like to walk back through before inspection. When I got there I noticed there had been a box added in the ceiling when I questioned them about it they said they made a mistake about where the projector was to be placed. Upon looking closer the "expert" deacon had ran a piece of 12-3 sj cord from my box to his through the attic. This in a building all wired with MC-AP. I lost it in front of the GC, preacher and the clown that did it. Why did you not let me know so I could move it? Well, we told you wrong and we knew it would cost extra for you to move it. At that point they had three choices. Pay me $500.00 to clime up and fix it, have the clown go up and fix it while I watched or leave it like it was, I would pull my name off permit and void any warranty and they could complete it them selves. After very short meeting the clown was up on the ladder fixing the problem. After that I had no more problems
 

ohm

Senior Member
Location
Birmingham, AL
Thanks 76nemo & ceb58. I did a re-wire at a smaller church which was full of wiring done by the "church experts". After about three weeks they told me they were out of money and could we wrap it up.

They weren't mad just broke but we had not done anything about the baptistry heater which was on a 50A 2p. There was no inspection in that county but we put in a 50A GFCI out of our pocket and thanked them for the job.
 

brian john

Senior Member
Location
Leesburg, VA
ohm said:
Thanks 76nemo & ceb58. I did a re-wire at a smaller church which was full of wiring done by the "church experts". After about three weeks they told me they were out of money and could we wrap it up.

They weren't mad just broke but we had not done anything about the baptistry heater which was on a 50A 2p. There was no inspection in that county but we put in a 50A GFCI out of our pocket and thanked them for the job.

Some churches operate on a very limited budget and others have the money of the Vatican. Some of the elaborate items I have seen in the "high end" churches amazes me.
 
brian john said:
And every church I have worked at had at least one "EXPERT" electrician in the congregation. Who knew exactly the problem but could never locate the issues, but wanted to watch me, oversee me, bug me as I worked.




You're the one!

I know that feeling. I almost walked off the job when he was trying to tell me I only needed #3 instead of #2. But then again with Ugly's Pocket Reference everyone can do electrical work! Things are handy but it makes everyone just so damn smart
 

Mule

Senior Member
Location
Oklahoma
While doing some work in a large church for a sound and video contractor some time back, I had the childrens pastor ask me to give a estimate on installing a couple of 20amp circuits for two lighting dimmer packs. So I thought here's a open door for me to gain a client, so I had some left over MC on the truck, so I bid mostly labor and a small amount for the parts....BIG MISTAKE......So 2 months later the pastor calls back and says "GO"....BUT now they want to install 30amp dimmer packs. So I explained to him about the major cost difference and what I had done to get in the door. So he says "Go ahead" we'll work it out.

So I schedule the job, do the install, and the invoice came in at double of my original estimate for obvious reasons. So after some grumbling the pastor said OK..So then I do a second job for a vounteer that is actually responsible for facilities maintenance the same day, then he calls me back three weeks later for a third job, and I ask, did you recieve my invoice for those other two jobs? They said yes, have you not been paid? No I said, But Im not rushing you, just a reminder.....So in the middle of this third job he comes back and told me that they had not paid me yet because giving had been down and didnt have the money yet but would in the next couple of weeks.. He said however it says right on your invoice "due upon reciept".....

So Im setting there thinking gosh why did you call me for a third job? duh

So, here's what I did, I told them to consider the first job a contribution to their church.....This guy hung his head, and said I'll pay you my self If I have to, and I said no you want, and if I want to make a contribution, I can do so.

My reasons were two fold...first it was my screwup for mis representing the first estimate then charging them double even though it was 30 amp opposed to 20amp circuits. This my way of erasing that negative experience of my new client. Second, I told him that I had been extreemly blessed with alot of jobs this year, and ALOT of them from Christian folks, and, I have not made any or contributions and I just thought I needed to do that...

So Im not honking my horn at all, just making a point that I learned a lesson out of the deal, and I think they did too... So I think I will continue to get jobs from this client and they are a BIG one. And I feel better that I had a chance to give back.

Sorry for being so long winded......haha
 
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