Required receps per 210.52

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Required receps per 210.52

  • Yes

    Votes: 30 44.1%
  • No

    Votes: 38 55.9%

  • Total voters
    68
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bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
The answer is NO.

Look at it like this in this discussion counter top space has wall space, wall space may or my not have counter top space.

I don't know why anyone whould think otherwise and I have read all the posts here. What are the reasons we have receptacles? To plug things in. Are you going to tell me that you can not use those receptacles for what might need to be pluged in for that 4' of wall space? If you are then you are reaching really far. That being said depending on the room and seeing the whole lay out I may put one in one of those blue areas, but by code you can not prove to me that one is needed.
 
Last edited:

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
I read the following, with interest -

Pierre post #37,

In my travels as an inspector, I am somewhat surprised as to how so many installers disregard the wall space requirements in 210.52(A)(2) in regards to kitchen room/space installations.

Dnem Post #63


Quote:Originally Posted by roger3829 What if it wasn't a kitchen?What if it was a desk that was permantly attached to the wall?Would you have to add more receptacles?
Good question! Did you see the new '08 wording in 210.52(C)? . It's not just kitchen counters anymore.But even with the new '08 wording, what if the counter was in your den or bedroom? . Does the countertop plug count toward the requirements for the entire wall space?

The kitchen factor is another glorified way to call it a shop that will have a higher usage of the area for specialized activity. As such, it gains certain rules that far outweigh usage through out the rest of the delling.


I tend to go with Mike Whitt in evaluating.

I voted, and believe the answer is NO.
 

GilbeSpark

Senior Member
Location
NC
I'd say no. I've never put one there unless was specifically asked by a customer. If I was just wiring to satisfy code then I'd put one about a foot from each edge on top of the countertop and that would meet countertop spacing and 6ft from the break spacing. This is the way I've always done it and have never been asked differently by any inspector.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
I voted no,.. I read it and I do not see words that prohibit the counter top wall space receptacle from covering the floor wall space . However, I think the powers that be would find that the blue spaces require them
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
The answer is NO.

Look at it like this in this discussion counter top space has wall space, wall space may or my not have counter top space.

I don't know why anyone whould think otherwise and I have read all the posts here. What are the reasons we have receptacles? To plug things in. Are you going to tell me that you can not use those receptacles for what might need to be pluged in for that 4' of wall space? If you are then you are reaching really far. That being said depending on the room and seeing the whole lay out I may put one in one of those blue areas, but by code you can not prove to me that one is needed.


You are free to install it as you wish....I just posted it for the discussion and just to be clear the "OPINION" is only that...right....So in the area I am the electrical inspector I say it needs to be added and the AHJ ( Building Commissioner ) agrees with me so the electricians opinion does not count atleast in the area where I work.

but everyone has a right to an opinion.....
 

bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
I am glad you are the great and wonderful inspector of OZ, but I would say that the electricians in your area if they disagreed with you enough and there were plenty of them who disagreed with you, you would find that your opinion would become just that. I think people need to take a breather from trying to make others do work that is really not nessasary or needed just because it fulfills some desire of their's to be the "authority". I had an inspector try to make me install a receptacle on a post in a basement because if you measured all the way around it, it was 25" therefore the need for a receptacle was there. I asked him where the wall was. he said all the way around the post. I laughed. the homeowner didn't want a receptacle there since it was to have decorative wood work around it. The only way to satisfy this inspector was to make the "wall" less that 24". The carpenter did me a favor and at finish the measurement around the post was 23 7/8". I later spoke with his boss and decorative posts are no longer wall space.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
..... I had an inspector try to make me install a receptacle on a post in a basement because if you measured all the way around it, it was 25" therefore the need for a receptacle was there. I asked him where the wall was. he said all the way around the post. I laughed. the homeowner didn't want a receptacle there since it was to have decorative wood work around it. The only way to satisfy this inspector was to make the "wall" less that 24". The carpenter did me a favor and at finish the measurement around the post was 23 7/8". I later spoke with his boss and decorative posts are no longer wall space.

If the measurement around the post is 24" or more, then the post would require a recep. The HOs wants/wishes/desires/demands/perceptions/interpretations are irrelevant.
 

bikeindy

Senior Member
Location
Indianapolis IN
A post is one thing. Wrapped in 2-bys and covered in drywall (or in your case, wood) would make it a wall, IMPO.

Just because it is wraped doesn't make it a wall. I don't have a pic but if I did I think you would agree with me. remember 24/4=6 I just don't see the need for a receptacle on a 6" section of a post just because it has 4 sides. I will gladly put one there iF the homeowner asks or in some other way it makes sence. In this case it was niether and there was a real wall just 3' away with a receptacle 1' from the corner. the inspector wouldn't give in unless my post was smaller than 24". I suggested to the carpenter that we make it smaller the homeowner seconded it and the carpenter made it so. I made a point of calling the chief inspector so we could avoid this in the future.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Just because it is wraped doesn't make it a wall. I don't have a pic but if I did I think you would agree with me. remember 24/4=6 I just don't see the need for a receptacle on a 6" section of a post just because it has 4 sides. I will gladly put one there iF the homeowner asks or in some other way it makes sence. In this case it was niether and there was a real wall just 3' away with a receptacle 1' from the corner. the inspector wouldn't give in unless my post was smaller than 24". I suggested to the carpenter that we make it smaller the homeowner seconded it and the carpenter made it so. I made a point of calling the chief inspector so we could avoid this in the future.

The NEC doesn't differentiate between a single, flat 24" wall and four 6" walls that are 90? to each other.

Granted, there isn't much a typical HO is going to need plugged in to a 6x6 support, but there's always vacuums, night lights......

If you can get a variance from the inspector, that's all well and good.... just make sure it's documented. "Uh, yea, sure, OK" from him/her isn't going to cut it if there's a problem with there not being one somewhere down the line.

If it's a continual problem, maybe you can put in a proposal for the '14 when it comes out. ;)
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Note to my fellow forum friends: I will be on vacation Nov 22-29, going to Texas to visit family, and will not be posting during that period.

Your addicted. :D

Even I manged 7 days of vacation without Internet.
 

radiopet

Senior Member
Location
Spotsylvania, VA
I am glad you are the great and wonderful inspector of OZ, but I would say that the electricians in your area if they disagreed with you enough and there were plenty of them who disagreed with you, you would find that your opinion would become just that. I think people need to take a breather from trying to make others do work that is really not nessasary or needed just because it fulfills some desire of their's to be the "authority". I had an inspector try to make me install a receptacle on a post in a basement because if you measured all the way around it, it was 25" therefore the need for a receptacle was there. I asked him where the wall was. he said all the way around the post. I laughed. the homeowner didn't want a receptacle there since it was to have decorative wood work around it. The only way to satisfy this inspector was to make the "wall" less that 24". The carpenter did me a favor and at finish the measurement around the post was 23 7/8". I later spoke with his boss and decorative posts are no longer wall space.

You totally miss the point of why we have inspectors. We dont make them do anything we would no do ourselves and we usually do our homework ( check with other industry people ) before inspectors make a choice....as for the OZ comment....I can plainly see you have issues with inspectors anyway so my views are pointless.
 
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