LED Recessed lights

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curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I was told that Cree now has a housing listed for their trims. I believe that the housing is made by Liton but I have not personally confirmed this to be true. I would contact Cree directly not the various lighting retailer?s links that have been posted in this thread.
http://creelighting.com/

Halo and Juno both make LED reassessed lights now with equivalent specs as the Cree so you might want to look at their products. Since Halo and Juno are making the housing and trim there would not be any UL listing compatibility issues. Halo is integrating the driver into the trim just like the Cree. Juno integrates the driver into the housing.

http://www.junolightinggroup.com/Juno_RecessedLED-Splash.asp


http://www.haloltg.com/common/brand...ergy Star / Title24 Products : 6" Title24 LED
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Yes, it has the UL label and lists that it conforms to UL STD 1598 and certified to CSA STD C22.2.

Any idea where I can find a specification sheet on the product that indicates a UL listing? I haven't seen that yet. I don't understand how UL could approve the LED buld/trim in scores of housings made by numerous housing manufacturers. And if the LED manufactirer did go through the expense why doesn't the spec sheet show a UL listing?
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I was told that Cree now has a housing listed for their trims. I believe that the housing is made by Liton but I have not personally confirmed this to be true. I would contact Cree directly not the various lighting retailer?s links that have been posted in this thread.
http://creelighting.com/

Halo and Juno both make LED reassessed lights now with equivalent specs as the Cree so you might want to look at their products. Since Halo and Juno are making the housing and trim there would not be any UL listing compatibility issues. Halo is integrating the driver into the trim just like the Cree. Juno integrates the driver into the housing.

http://www.junolightinggroup.com/Juno_RecessedLED-Splash.asp

http://www.haloltg.com/common/brand...ergy Star / Title24 Products : 6" Title24 LED

Thanks that looks like useful information.
 

Ebow

Member
I started reading this post yesterday but waited till today to reply. I am currently doing a curch choir room, bath room, and Baptismal changing room which are all getting the Cree Trims. The GC is/was really worried about the light output, so today my boss brought me a trim to install and show the GC how the light looks. I installed an LR6 next to a typical 60w for demonstration. The diffrence in the quality of light output was significant.

The installation of the Module was a bit time consuming but not difficult at all. You simply remove all the metal Socket plate from the can and screw the module and lampholder together. Attach the ground wire which comes with a hook terminal on it to the can housing. I used the stud of the wing nut for the socket plate. And push the module in. I was using a Juno can but I could not see how any similar depth can would be any problem.

Gene
____________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.
 

Ebow

Member
What's to tell? The quality of the light was significantly better than the incandesent bulb. It was brighter, not yellow, but clean and the overall coverage was larger at floor level. Color rendition was truer. I was surprised, the GC was happy, and the Interior Decorator was pleased (Yes the Church has an Interior Decorator). Everybody that came to look at the light was pleased/ amazed/ surprised/ or happy with it.

Gene
__________________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.
 

steelersman

Senior Member
Location
Lake Ridge, VA
What's to tell? The quality of the light was significantly better than the incandesent bulb.

That's better. Now we know which one was better. Before you weren't clear on which one had the better light output. I was actually thinking that you were meaning that the incandescent was better when in fact you meant the opposite. :)
 

electricmanscott

Senior Member
Location
Boston, MA
What's to tell? The quality of the light was significantly better than the incandesent bulb. It was brighter, not yellow, but clean and the overall coverage was larger at floor level. Color rendition was truer. I was surprised, the GC was happy, and the Interior Decorator was pleased (Yes the Church has an Interior Decorator). Everybody that came to look at the light was pleased/ amazed/ surprised/ or happy with it.

Gene
__________________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.

That's all I was looking for.
 

WinderLumenLED

New member
I started reading this post yesterday but waited till today to reply. I am currently doing a curch choir room, bath room, and Baptismal changing room which are all getting the Cree Trims. The GC is/was really worried about the light output, so today my boss brought me a trim to install and show the GC how the light looks. I installed an LR6 next to a typical 60w for demonstration. The diffrence in the quality of light output was significant.

The installation of the Module was a bit time consuming but not difficult at all. You simply remove all the metal Socket plate from the can and screw the module and lampholder together. Attach the ground wire which comes with a hook terminal on it to the can housing. I used the stud of the wing nut for the socket plate. And push the module in. I was using a Juno can but I could not see how any similar depth can would be any problem.

Gene
____________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.
If your GC is still concerned about the light output of the LR6 there is another product that is built for higher seilings with higher light output (since you mentioned that its a church).
This is Ecos 6" ECSRW Recessed LED Downlight by Gotham Lighting.
It has nominal delivered light output 1400 lumens. You can see the specs on my web. But if the LR6 does the job go with it - its much cheaper.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
OP here. I don't feel like I am getting anywhere on this subject.

My understanding is that a manufacturer decides what parts can be incorporated into an assembly. They do this by having the components tested by an agency such as UL. And once the testing is to the satisfaction of UL the manufacturer can claim a UL listing for the assembly.

Because the supplier has provided a half assed certification " We are writing to you to to certify that: the LR6 and LR4 Series of products are certified to meet UL standards...." I am not ready to chalenge the AHJ when he asks why he should approve the assembly of Brand X recess housing and brand Y LED lamp/trim.

I can certify that I am smart, handsome and fun to be with, but that does mean anybody has to accept that as factual.

Does my concern about the AHJ approving the brand X lamp/trim and brand Y housing seem unreasonable?
 

TwinCitySparky

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
What's to tell? The quality of the light was significantly better than the incandesent bulb. It was brighter, not yellow, but clean and the overall coverage was larger at floor level. Color rendition was truer. I was surprised, the GC was happy, and the Interior Decorator was pleased (Yes the Church has an Interior Decorator). Everybody that came to look at the light was pleased/ amazed/ surprised/ or happy with it.

Gene
__________________________________________

Remember - Speed Kills and its not always you.

I saw this LED fixture over a year ago at a lighting supply outlet. They had the same demonstration set up next to a 60 watt. The LED bulb put that ol' incandecent to shame in a big way. Major difference all around. At that time they wanted about 175 bucks for one. Looks like price fell almost halfway in one year. I'd say - embrace the technology. :cool:

OOPS - Sorry - Off topic...
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I started reading this post yesterday but waited till today to reply. I am currently doing a curch choir room, bath room, and Baptismal changing room which are all getting the Cree Trims. The GC is/was really worried about the light output, so today my boss brought me a trim to install and show the GC how the light looks. I installed an LR6 next to a typical 60w for demonstration. The diffrence in the quality of light output was significant.QUOTE]

Ok, good, I'm glad you like the product. Now I am going to play the part of the inspector: Where does it say on the recess housing that the lamp/trim you have installed is acceptable? It doesn't. Am I the only one that sees this as a problem?
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I saw this LED fixture over a year ago at a lighting supply outlet. They had the same demonstration set up next to a 60 watt. The LED bulb put that ol' incandecent to shame in a big way. Major difference all around. At that time they wanted about 175 bucks for one. Looks like price fell almost halfway in one year. I'd say - embrace the technology. :cool:

OOPS - Sorry - Off topic...

I have no doubt the product is wonderful. How does matching product X with product Y meet code? I really want to know.
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
How does matching product X with product Y meet code?

You should be concerned if IRC lets HO in your State replace LED assembly with Edison base bulb likely to exceed fixture wattage.

Otherwise, "meet code" and "pass inspection" is the key difference.

Perhaps the other animals seem unconcerned, since inspectors preventing fires may check IC listings and bulb wattage for exceeding fixture ratings, but care less about trim.

If the industry designs heat failure to warp or discolor plastics long before combusting, then products like trim may remain stealth to AHJ radar, especially if inspectors losing too many nit-picking challenges are getting fired.

Building officials are governed by elected officials, perhaps indebted to Contractor Associations that financed their local campaigns. As long as things don't go bad enough to cause smoke or fires, and litigators aren't suing the food chain including AHJ's, everybody is happy with inspectors behaving within reasonable limits.

This business is like the slogan I learned in the Air Force; it may be Situation Normal All Fouled Up (SNAFU), but always Cover Your Assets (CYA).
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Grady I think what your asking is a potential problem however I don't see this as any different than an Cutler Hammer certified breaker being installed in an Sq. D panel. It is UL approved for the purpose but the manufacturer does not approve it for there product.

Of course, what manufacturer would approve someones elses device in their product. Are CFL's allowed in recessed cans that have not been certifieed by the can manufacturer??

If this is a concern, as someone else mentioned, Halo and Juno make a trim for their cans that are LED and listed for their product. Before I did anything I would contact my AHJ. Good Luck.

Did you try calling the manufacturers rather than relying on a bunch of yahoos on a message board?
Trust me I have called Halo about the CFL's and they will not permit anything that the can is not listed for. CYA is what they are doing.
 

M. D.

Senior Member
You should be concerned if IRC lets HO in your State replace LED assembly with Edison base bulb likely to exceed fixture wattage.....

I wouldn't worry too much about that,.. big daddy government will chase all those nasty bulbs away,..

UL classifies breakers from x to be installed in y even though y, does not list x as acceptable ,.. perhaps it is the same for this thingymabob
 
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