Receptacle outlet tapped from air handling unit

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vince66

Member
Location
miami, fl
A 120V receptacle outlet is powered from an Air Handling Unit (208V) to power a cord connected pump. Which sections of NEC 2002 are violated. I believe that the following sections apply 210.21(B)(1), (3), 240.21, 406.3(A). Any thoughts.
 

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
A 120V receptacle outlet is powered from an Air Handling Unit (208V) to power a cord connected pump. Which sections of NEC 2002 are violated. I believe that the following sections apply 210.21(B)(1), (3), 240.21, 406.3(A). Any thoughts.
210.21(B)(1) does not apply (it is not a single receptacle on an individual branch circuit)

210.12(B)(3) is only violated if the overcurrent protection is over 20 amps.

240.21 - we haven't been given enough information - again is only a violation if overcurrent protection is over 20 amps.

406.3(A) - I suppose could be a problem but don't know why that comes up as it has to do with listing and labeling of receptacles in general and is more of a problem with the specific receptacle used rather than the application.

This install can be legal, but more details are necessary to confirm if it is legal.

One thing I can get from what was described is that if this is a 208 volt air handling unit then to run a 120 volt receptacle you either need a transformer or bring the grounded conductor with the circuit to the unit.
 

vince66

Member
Location
miami, fl
210.21(B)(1) does not apply (it is not a single receptacle on an individual branch circuit) IT'A A SINGLE BRANCH CIRCUIT FOR THE AHU AND IT ONLY HAS ONE RECEPTACLE???

210.12(B)(3) is only violated if the overcurrent protection is over 20 amps. THE BRANCH CIRCUIT FOR THE AHU IS 60A.

240.21 - we haven't been given enough information - again is only a violation if overcurrent protection is over 20 amps. 60A

406.3(A) - I suppose could be a problem but don't know why that comes up as it has to do with listing and labeling of receptacles in general and is more of a problem with the specific receptacle used rather than the application. AGREE

This install can be legal, but more details are necessary to confirm if it is legal. WHJAT ELSE DO YOU NEED TO KNOW?

One thing I can get from what was described is that if this is a 208 volt air handling unit then to run a 120 volt receptacle you either need a transformer or bring the grounded conductor with the circuit to the unit.
REFER TO NEW PHOTO.
 

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jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
What is the size of the protective device feeding this air handling unit and thus the receptacle?
 

texie

Senior Member
Location
Fort Collins, Colorado
Occupation
Electrician, Contractor, Inspector
60A (2-pole) with 2#6, 1#8G. Don't know how they are getting 120V out of this?

It would appear that they are using the EGC as the neutral. Big time violation and could be deadly. Of course this is not unheard of, but is right up there on my top 10 list of real bad safety issues.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
We need to see a picture of the wiring a little further back to see what the Yellow is connected to.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
it may be the pump is 208v single phase and they put their own cord on it and used the wrong receptacle for all we know.
 

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
where's the flex going thats coming out of the top of the handy box?
Something here is not adding up.
is power coming out of the unit goin to something else other than the receptacle or is power coming down the flex, into the handy box then into the unit?
 

grizwald

Member
Location
California
A 120V receptacle outlet is powered from an Air Handling Unit (208V) to power a cord connected pump. Which sections of NEC 2002 are violated. I believe that the following sections apply 210.21(B)(1), (3), 240.21, 406.3(A). Any thoughts.

Why are you asking about NEC 2002 violations? It's 2014; we're on NEC 2011 here.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/.../pdsfk4d-05.pdf?

from the booklet in the bottom of the unit Bryant model fk4d

link does not seem to work

The link is just the visible text with the "...." in it. Happens when a poster is not careful copying and pasting from their browser page into the reply.
If the OP does not come back with full link it may be possible to reconstruct it.
http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/pdsfk4d-05.pdf

No schematic.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
Try this one:
http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/wd-fa4c-02.pdf

All the wiring is L-L voltage. Yellow is L1 and Black is L2.
Hmm... in Fig. 15 there's a transformer. Secondary voltage not noted. Also there are other black and yellow wires with no clear connection to either supply rail. Don't recall OP'er mentioning anything about whether a neutral was run with supply conductors. Don't see any supplementary or transformer secondary ocpd.
 

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
Hmm... in Fig. 15 there's a transformer. Secondary voltage not noted...

We don't know which wiring diagram goes with the OP's unit.
The transformer may be for a LV (24V?)control.

I did not see a wiring diagram where at least 1 yellow wire was not connected to Line voltage.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
We don't know which wiring diagram goes with the OP's unit.
The transformer may be for a LV (24V?)control.

I did not see a wiring diagram where at least 1 yellow wire was not connected to Line voltage.
Picture of inside cabinet shows model FK4D on document and OP'er also noted model in his link post. Page 1 of the doc you linked associates Fig. 15 with FK4D.

Some corrections to my earlier post: Transformer secondary is 24V (see component arrangement diagram at right) and there is a fuse on the PCB.

With the black and yellow spliced directly to the external receptacle wiring?rather than "tapped"?they were likely cut from one of the plugs. With the PCB and ICM performing switching functions, it is possible another yellow was cut from the circuitry and connected to a supply neutral. Yet to be confirmed along with any supplementary ocpd for the receptacle circuit...
 
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