Stairway Lighting

Status
Not open for further replies.

dwlamb

New member
I've replied to the stairway lighting thread for everyones benefit.

Nothing personal to anyone, if the glove fits ?

Gentlemen,

To be straight forward with you all, it seems to me that several of you need a lot more training !

It doesn’t matter what your position is or what your “Inspector” thinks !

Each of you “should be able to Read & Understand this requirement”

As for myself, I received certification as at the Mater level in my 4th year of experience back in 1989.

The reason for my early success is that I studied and memorized the top 3000 test questions for the United States.

It proved worthy in that I became Licensed in Florida, California, & Hawaii all at the same time.

Then I became and still am an instructor, teaching all levels and areas of Electrical, including the NEC.

The primary purpose of the code is SAFETY ! ( Article 90.1 Purpose )

The reason that it is specified in 210.70 A 2 c, that “ there shall be a wall switch at each floor level , and landing level ( that includes an entry way,) is so that anyone “entering” the stairway can turn “ON” THE LIGHT(S) so they will not FALL !

“That includes an entry way” is the qualifying part of the statement.

So, if there is NO entry way, at the floor or landing, NO switch or control is required !

Only, where you “enter” the stairway is control required.

Standard English Language, should also be “common sense” !

All the other comment's that were stated are "nice" opinions, but, not what the "Code" is stating !

Obviously – falling down the stairs is more dangerous than falling on a flat floor !

After you have grasp that!, then you will ( hopefully ) realize that any device that hinders the light from “lighting” the stairs when someone “enters” from any “ entryway ” at any point, Is not up to the “minimum” standard and "primary" purpose of the NEC. ( 90.1 )

The purpose of all this is to light the stairs for SAFETY , when someone enters the stairs !

Anytime the stairs fail to be lit up when someone operates anyone of the control devices, there needs to be a repair ! Either it was wired incorrectly or the incorrect device(s) were installed !

If you can’t ( or won’t ) understand that, then maybe you ( or someone else ) should remove you from the trade or to a position that will not put people at risk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

dcspector

Senior Member
Location
Burke, Virginia
If one reads the IRC (I assume this is a residential thing) section R303.6.1 Light Activation. The control or activation of the required interior stairway lighting shall be accessible at the top and bottom of each stairway without traversing any steps......sounds like a 3way and possibly 4way to me. Don't know the reason for the post but heck just thought I would reply.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
If one reads the IRC (I assume this is a residential thing) section R303.6.1 Light Activation. The control or activation of the required interior stairway lighting shall be accessible at the top and bottom of each stairway without traversing any steps......sounds like a 3way and possibly 4way to me. Don't know the reason for the post but heck just thought I would reply.

how do you get a 4 way out of this ?
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
To be straight forward with you all, it seems to me that several of you need a lot more training !

To be straight forward with you that is an terrible way to get started with and to continue by bragging about yourself well that just seems odd.

So what exactly is the issue you have with 'several of' us?
 

dcspector

Senior Member
Location
Burke, Virginia
To be straight forward with you that is an terrible way to get started with and to continue by bragging about yourself well that just seems odd.

As much as Bob and I have gone around I will agree with his (Iwire's) post/comment. Sorry my quote thing did not work so well that time but heck the post is what counts anyway eh?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
It upsets me that a member on his 1st post would take this attitude. We have thousands of members ,many been here for years and we see them almost every day. He judged all on opinion of a few
 

Rockyd

Senior Member
Location
Nevada
Occupation
Retired after 40 years as an electrician.
You'll catch more flys with honey than with vinegar. Your qualifications may be admirable, but there nothing special here in comparison to many.

90.1 already covers the code's consideration of most of the rant.

210.70(A)(2)(c) and it's exception just tighten down the verbiage a bit more.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
As much as Bob and I have gone around I will agree with his (Iwire's) post/comment. Sorry my quote thing did not work so well that time but heck the post is what counts anyway eh?

Then again, who among us can truly say they have completed their 'education' or their 'training'?

Our field, IMO, is so vast and comprehensive that I doubt there's a single person out there who, for lack of a better term, knows it all. We all have our experience and training that we can bring to the table, and offer it up here for the rest. But no matter what a person's training, education and real-life experiences are, I would tend to think that everyone, no matter how long they've been in the trade, is still learning, still taking on new information, still absorbing more concepts and ideas.

There are forums here that I rarely visit simply because I don't deal with that particular facet of the trade on a regular basis. I, for one, have never packed a single explosion-proof fitting in my life. I know the concept, I understand the need and rationale behind them, and can comprehend the prodecure. For reasons such as this, I do not post in the Hazardous Locations forum. During my occasional forays there however, I see what sometimes appears to be Greek to me while I'm reading the posts. But I still read them and try to comprehend what is being presented. I may never use that information in my life, but at least I try to cram some of it into my skull.
 

Twoskinsoneman

Senior Member
Location
West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
Occupation
Facility Senior Electrician
I've replied to the stairway lighting thread for everyones benefit.

Nothing personal to anyone, if the glove fits ?

Gentlemen,

To be straight forward with you all, it seems to me that several of you need a lot more training !

It doesn?t matter what your position is or what your ?Inspector? thinks !

Each of you ?should be able to Read & Understand this requirement?

As for myself, I received certification as at the Mater level in my 4th year of experience back in 1989.

The reason for my early success is that I studied and memorized the top 3000 test questions for the United States.

It proved worthy in that I became Licensed in Florida, California, & Hawaii all at the same time.

Then I became and still am an instructor, teaching all levels and areas of Electrical, including the NEC.

The primary purpose of the code is SAFETY ! ( Article 90.1 Purpose )

The reason that it is specified in 210.70 A 2 c, that ? there shall be a wall switch at each floor level , and landing level ( that includes an entry way,) is so that anyone ?entering? the stairway can turn ?ON? THE LIGHT(S) so they will not FALL !

?That includes an entry way? is the qualifying part of the statement.

So, if there is NO entry way, at the floor or landing, NO switch or control is required !

Only, where you ?enter? the stairway is control required.

Standard English Language, should also be ?common sense? !

All the other comment's that were stated are "nice" opinions, but, not what the "Code" is stating !

Obviously ? falling down the stairs is more dangerous than falling on a flat floor !

After you have grasp that!, then you will ( hopefully ) realize that any device that hinders the light from ?lighting? the stairs when someone ?enters? from any ? entryway ? at any point, Is not up to the ?minimum? standard and "primary" purpose of the NEC. ( 90.1 )

The purpose of all this is to light the stairs for SAFETY , when someone enters the stairs !

Anytime the stairs fail to be lit up when someone operates anyone of the control devices, there needs to be a repair ! Either it was wired incorrectly or the incorrect device(s) were installed !

If you can?t ( or won?t ) understand that, then maybe you ( or someone else ) should remove you from the trade or to a position that will not put people at risk.

I went back and checked the thread of the dimmer 3-way... I can't understand you freaking out like this. It was an interesting question and not as cut-and-dry as you make it seem.
 

guschash

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
I also went back and reread the thread. I agree, what is your problem. We are all here to learn not to blow our own horns.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
After you have grasp that!, then you will ( hopefully ) realize that any device that hinders the light from ?lighting? the stairs when someone ?enters? from any ? entryway ? at any point, Is not up to the ?minimum? standard and "primary" purpose of the NEC. ( 90.1 )

So any switch would then be a violation.

And where can I find the required amount of illumination for a stairway in the NEC?

Can I use 25 watt lamps or must I use 100 watt lamps, how many fixtures must I have?

Can I shut them off at all?

You have to mix safety with common sense. Check out 90.1(A) 'practical safeguarding.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
So a stairway with a landing is two stairways, and you'd install 2 sets of 3-ways then?
A split foyer may look like a landing, but it isn't; it's a floor that has two stairways. One can either use two sets of 3-ways and have separate lighting for each stairway, or a single 3-way/4-way/3-way setup with a single light or lighting group.

A stairway with a landing, which has no separate entrance onto the landing, is a single stairway with a landing, and only requires a single pair of 3-ways with one light or lighting group. Using two sets of 3-ways is optional, but not required.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top