"phantom or ghost voltage" Question

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hockeyoligist2

Senior Member
We have been directed to help reduce the "phantom voltage" at work to be more "green". The upper management has two ideas.

1st idea: Put all of outlets on the light switch with a double pole switch. When they leave for the day and turn off the lights they remove all the power to the outlets.

2nd idea: Put all outlets on a timer so they turn off when the workday is over, back on when the workday starts.

Which do y'all think would be more efficient? The timer would be using power to run the clock, it seems to me that it may not help to save much power. The light switch thing may cause a lot of headaches for people that have the good habit of cutting off the lights when they leave the room, but forget to save their work.

My suggestion, is to put a sign next to the door, "Remember to turn off all power strips before leaving"!
 
Phantom LOADS

I like your idea best but if I had to choose one of the others I would go with the switch.
timers have to be set and reset and batteries and all that.
plus if anyone stays over they will still have power as long as the lights are on.
 

bob

Senior Member
Location
Alabama
We have been directed to help reduce the "phantom voltage" at work to be more "green".
My suggestion, is to put a sign next to the door, "Remember to turn off all power strips before leaving"!

If you want to reduce power usage thats great, but phantom voltage is not the fault for high bills. You are using a digital voltmeter and it is common to read "phantom voltage". Buy an analog meter an you have solved the problem.
 

quogueelectric

Senior Member
Location
new york
Price out a small energy management system. There are lots of them available. No muss no fuss and you could tie it in to a modem and turn everything on remotely. They are surprisingly afordable now. They can help you decide the method of switching.
 

hockeyoligist2

Senior Member
Phantom LOADS

I like your idea best but if I had to choose one of the others I would go with the switch.
timers have to be set and reset and batteries and all that.
plus if anyone stays over they will still have power as long as the lights are on.


I should have said loads such as phone chargers and power packs instead of voltage, sorry
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
090410-0801 EST

Your management needs an education in electrical circuit theory, as does Obama.

Worrying about cell phone chargers is peanuts compared to places where really major savings are possible.

Turning unused lights out is a really big factor. Also unused computers, CRTs vs LCDs, printers, copy machines, and other items with large standby loads.

A double pole switch vs a single pole is of no value for power saving.

Once the big problems are solved, then it makes sense to worry about cell phone chargers. Here what is needed are switching power supplies vs 60 Hz transformers, and I believe these are now mandated. So in time this several watt residual load per charger will drop to a fraction of a watt as new cell phones are purchased.

.
 

mivey

Senior Member
1st idea: Put all of outlets on the light switch with a double pole switch. When they leave for the day and turn off the lights they remove all the power to the outlets.

2nd idea: Put all outlets on a timer so they turn off when the workday is over, back on when the workday starts.
What a great way to find out which computers need new batteries on their motherboards as the weak ones will have the CMOS reset to the default values when work attempts to resume.:roll:

Sounds like these braniacs need to spend less time "brainstorming" and more time filling their brains with real knowledge, as gar suggested.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
What a great way to find out which computers need new batteries on their motherboards as the weak ones will have the CMOS reset to the default values when work attempts to resume.:roll:
How can one check the battery intentionally?
 

glene77is

Senior Member
Location
Memphis, TN
Hockey,
(1) "Phantom Voltage" is that voltage induced from a first current carrying conductor into a second non-connected wire. Available power may be in the micro-watt range, so pulling 10 mA might draw down the voltage into the 10 Volt range. It can be read by Oscopes, and most High Impedance digital voltage meters. My Wiggy thing will not read "Phantom Voltage" because it pulls about 40 mA, pulling down the voltage from the limited power source to a very low voltage, as described above.
(2) Managing the 'after hours' un-necessary power usage of a company of people, who work at different times (possibly early, late and over-night) can hardly be assigned to a single switch. Some working late will find their power cut off! by a leaving-on-time person.
(3) Putting up the usual "Turn All Un-Necessary Power OFF" by the exit door, will invite someone to flip the power off as they leave the room!
(4) Putting up the usual "Turn All Un-Necessary Power OFF" at EACH Work station may encourage each person to control his own power usage.
(5) Good luck! We all have been assigned to such projects. :smile:
(6) Maybe you could put it on a (broken or mis-wired) timer.
Hope nobody sees it. :rolleyes:
 

Jon456

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
We have been directed to ... be more "green". The upper management has two ideas.

Problem #1: Most people in the pursuit of being "green" have NO understanding of basic science (like those people who think electric cars run on "free" energy).

1st idea: Put all of outlets on the light switch with a double pole switch. When they leave for the day and turn off the lights they remove all the power to the outlets.

2nd idea: Put all outlets on a timer so they turn off when the workday is over, back on when the workday starts.

These days, many computers are on Uninterruptible Power Supplies (battery back-up systems). Shutting off the main AC power to all the workstations would cause all the UPS's to switch over to battery by design. Not only will this cause the UPS to draw greater power the next morning to recharge the depleted batteries (no free energy!), but the batteries will quickly be ruined by the daily deep discharge. How much "green" energy is saved when dozens of large sealed lead-acid batteries have to be replaced (think about the raw materials, manufacturing, distribution, recycling, disposal, etc.)?

Speaking of UPS's, American Power Conversion (APC) makes a new line of "green" UPS's that automatically shut off connected peripherals when the main PC connected to the UPS is powered off. Now that IS a smart way of reducing "phantom loads".
 

Doug S.

Senior Member
Location
West Michigan
As mentioned the pettily things are just that.

Timers will cause as much problems as some one accidentally turning of a switch. I can just imagine the fun with that...

There are many examples of quick simple ways to save, and they will be different for each situation.

For us, we cut our lot lighting by 2/3 the 5 days a week no one's here at night. That alone is saving us over $5k annually. It was simple, had virtually no cost to implement, and had no impact on safety or production.

Of course that's a drop in the bucket, but it doesn't take to many more ideas like that to save a salary or two...

A GOOD way to get these types of ideas to management is to make a spreadsheet (they like those) and show them how much (or how little) they will be saving... Pretty graphs with $ signs on them coupled with a bunch of neatly rowed numbers can be very convincing.


Doug S.
 

mivey

Senior Member
LOL. Yep, I guess that would do. I usually take the easy route:
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2991084

Add: Remove the battery from the motherboard while the PC is plugged in to a live receptacle. On the new PCs, this will keep the CMOS alive while the battery is being replace. On some old PCs, you would have to change the battery with the PC actually running.
 
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