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Thread: Wet location

  1. #1
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    Wet location

    Installed XHHW in a marina per the specs. Conduit and wire are completly under water when tide is in and when tide goes out conduits stay full because of the 90's. My question is when the code refers to wet locations to what extreme is wet. In my situation are my conductors in a wet location or are they concidered underwater. Also is XHHW rated for the continuous underwater enviroment?

    Thanks Jay

  2. #2
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    Exclamation Wet Location

    Quote Originally Posted by djt227 View Post
    Installed XHHW in a marina per the specs. Conduit and wire are completly under water when tide is in and when tide goes out conduits stay full because of the 90's. My question is when the code refers to wet locations to what extreme is wet. In my situation are my conductors in a wet location or are they concidered underwater. Also is XHHW rated for the continuous underwater enviroment?

    Thanks Jay
    Article 100-Location, Wet. Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.


    It is definitely a wet location
    .

    According to the UL White Book
    X= Cross-linked synthetic polymer insulation
    HH= 90*C
    W= Moisture resistant

    XHHW — Indicates a single conductor with the same description as Type XHH, except that it is rated 90°C dry,
    75°C wet.
    (XHH — Indicates a single conductor having a cross-linked synthetic polymer insulation with no overall covering
    provided, rated 90°C dry.)

    XHHW is rated for use in a wet location.

    Welcome to the forum!!!!
    Last edited by ibew441dc; 04-06-09 at 12:12 PM. Reason: added welcoming

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by djt227 View Post
    Installed XHHW in a marina per the specs. Conduit and wire are completly under water when tide is in and when tide goes out conduits stay full because of the 90's. My question is when the code refers to wet locations to what extreme is wet. In my situation are my conductors in a wet location or are they concidered underwater. Also is XHHW rated for the continuous underwater enviroment?

    Thanks Jay
    This does not qualify as a wet location. This application is submerged which does not covered by the NEC. IMO the Code and the NEMA industry standards cover this area inadequately although NEMA enclosure classifications go into more detail. NEC seem to relied on outsdie agencies to develop engineering criterias, yet it is not formalized, eg. NEC start using a word and UL or NEMA steps up to the plate and develop the engineering criteria what conditions are damp, wet, immersed and submerged. That wasy it would be easy to go to one document and answer your question with asking you to specify the length of submersion, the depth of submersion and the chemical characteristics of the liquid in question(acidity, alkaline etc.). Then the answer would be unambigous. Hopefuly.

  4. #4
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    Smile Wet Location???? you make the call

    ARTICLE 555 Marinas and Boatyards

    555.13 Wiring Methods and Installation.

    (A) Wiring Methods.

    (1) General. Wiring methods of Chapter 3 shall be permitted where identified for use in wet locations.


    HMMMMMMMM???????Well what do you think:rolleyes:

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibew441dc View Post
    ARTICLE 555 Marinas and Boatyards

    555.13 Wiring Methods and Installation.

    (A) Wiring Methods.

    (1) General. Wiring methods of Chapter 3 shall be permitted where identified for use in wet locations.


    HMMMMMMMM???????Well what do you think:rolleyes:
    I think that the NEC presumes that all the installation is ABOVE the water line: (Italics are my comments.)
    _________________________________________

    555.2 Definitions.
    Electrical Datum Plane.
    The electrical datum plane is defined as follows:
    (1) In land areas subject to tidal fluctuation, the electrical datum plane is a horizontal plane 606 mm (2 ft) above the highest tide level for the area occurring under normal circumstances, that is, highest high tide.
    (2) In land areas not subject to tidal fluctuation, the electrical datum plane is a horizontal plane 606 mm (2 ft) above the highest water level for the area occurring under normal circumstances.
    (3) The electrical datum plane for floating piers and landing stages that are (a) installed to permit rise and fall response to water level, without lateral movement, and (b) that are so equipped that they can rise to the datum plane established for (1) or (2), is a horizontal plane
    762 mm (30 in.) above the water level at the floating pier or landing stage and a minimum of 305 mm (12 in.) above the level of the deck.

    .............................
    555.9 Electrical Connections.
    Electrical connections shall be located at least 305 mm (12 in.) above the deck of a floating pier. Conductor splices, within approved junction boxes, utilizing sealed wire connector systems listed and identified for submersion shall be permitted where located above the waterline but below the electrical datum field for floating piers.
    All electrical connections shall be located at least 305 mm (12 in.) above the deck of a fixed pier but not below the electrical datum plane. (Some clarity here, even though they do not define what submersion means. It seem to me that if they require identification for submersion here, wehre the conenctors are NOT expected to be actually submerged, they would require suitability and identification for submersion where the portions of the wiring is actually submerged.)
    .............................

    (3) Wiring Over and Under Navigable Water.
    Wiring over and under navigable water shall be subject to approval by the authority having jurisdiction. (This is where the ambiguity comes in.)

    .............................

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by weressl View Post
    (3) Wiring Over and Under Navigable Water.
    Wiring over and under navigable water shall be subject to approval by the authority having jurisdiction. (This is where the ambiguity comes in.)
    .............................

    I have always assumed that that rule has to do with boat traffic and not electrical issues. The FPN talks about warning signs that may be required for an installation over or under navigable water.
    Don, Illinois
    "It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." B Franklin

  7. #7
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    Can we assume this is salt water ? What impact does that have ?

  8. #8
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    Smile

    555.9Electrical connections shall be located at least 305 mm (12 in.) above the deck of a floating pier. Conductor splices, within approved junction boxes, utilizing sealed wire connector systems listed and identified for submersion shall be permitted where located above the waterline but below the electrical datum field for floating piers.
    All electrical connections shall be located at least 305 mm (12 in.) above the deck of a fixed pier but not below the electrical datum plane.

    This rule restricts the locations of "Electrical connections" not the wiring methods used to get to them.
    ARTICLE 555 Marinas and Boatyards
    555.13 Wiring Methods and Installation.
    (A) Wiring Methods.
    (1) General. Wiring methods of Chapter 3 shall be permitted where identified for use in wet locations.

    (example)
    344(A)(1)....... Galvanized Steel and Stainless Steel RMC. Galvanized steel and stainless steel RMC shall be permitted under all atmospheric conditions and occupancies.
    310.8(C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall comply with one of the following:
    (1)Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed
    (2)Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW
    (3)Be of a type listed for use in wet locations

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibew441dc View Post
    555.9Electrical connections shall be located at least 305 mm (12 in.) above the deck of a floating pier. Conductor splices, within approved junction boxes, utilizing sealed wire connector systems listed and identified for submersion shall be permitted where located above the waterline but below the electrical datum field for floating piers.
    All electrical connections shall be located at least 305 mm (12 in.) above the deck of a fixed pier but not below the electrical datum plane.

    This rule restricts the locations of "Electrical connections" not the wiring methods used to get to them.
    ARTICLE 555 Marinas and Boatyards
    555.13 Wiring Methods and Installation.
    (A) Wiring Methods.
    (1) General. Wiring methods of Chapter 3 shall be permitted where identified for use in wet locations.

    (example)
    344(A)(1)....... Galvanized Steel and Stainless Steel RMC. Galvanized steel and stainless steel RMC shall be permitted under all atmospheric conditions and occupancies.
    310.8(C) Wet Locations. Insulated conductors and cables used in wet locations shall comply with one of the following:
    (1)Be moisture-impervious metal-sheathed
    (2)Be types MTW, RHW, RHW-2, TW, THW, THW-2, THHW, THWN, THWN-2, XHHW, XHHW-2, ZW
    (3)Be of a type listed for use in wet locations
    Submerged is not in the atmosphere, by definition.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by don_resqcapt19 View Post
    I have always assumed that that rule has to do with boat traffic and not electrical issues. The FPN talks about warning signs that may be required for an installation over or under navigable water.
    [/left]
    Don,

    So is your understanding that 'under navigable water' does not meant to mean underwater or submerged?

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