Ballpark Figure On Getting Power to A/C Unit

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tsaltz

Member
Location
Fullerton,CA
I received a phone call from a buddy at church today. He needs power to his a/c unit. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm assuming it's a larger one outside for forced air. So new 240 circuit, to disconnect, etc. I have no idea what attic access is like, how easy it is to get a new circuit from the panel, etc. I'm just looking for a range of the high end, to the low end/friends-family discount.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
So you want us to provide a price without knowing

  • Distance
  • Wiring methods
  • Ampacity
  • Building construction methods
  • Breaker type
  • If there is space in a panel
  • If there is capacity in the panel with space
  • If there is capacity in the service

AND .. apply a friends and family discount.


OK, $250 to $3,000 and this assumes the service is sufficient. My ball park is a large one.
 

GerryB

Senior Member
I received a phone call from a buddy at church today. He needs power to his a/c unit. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm assuming it's a larger one outside for forced air. So new 240 circuit, to disconnect, etc. I have no idea what attic access is like, how easy it is to get a new circuit from the panel, etc. I'm just looking for a range of the high end, to the low end/friends-family discount.

Other questions would be concerning the low voltage, do you need to add a t-stat, wires etc or is the HVAC guy doing it. You mentioned attic so I am assuming you need a condensor outside and an air handler in the attic. For me that would probably be $1000 or up.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
So you want us to provide a price without knowing

  • Distance
  • Wiring methods
  • Ampacity
  • Building construction methods
  • Breaker type
  • If there is space in a panel
  • If there is capacity in the panel with space
  • If there is capacity in the service

AND .. apply a friends and family discount.


OK, $250 to $3,000 and this assumes the service is sufficient. My ball park is a large one.


If a permit is needed then even the jurisdiction will be important. Around here the cost of a permit can range from $50 to $200 just for the minimum fee.

Around here half the people that ask for a price for an AC unit actually are installing a heat pump ( big difference).
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If a permit is needed then even the jurisdiction will be important. Around here the cost of a permit can range from $50 to $200 just for the minimum fee.

Around here half the people that ask for a price for an AC unit actually are installing a heat pump ( big difference).
Wiring of controls is different. Wiring of main supply is the same at least for a typical air to air heat pump.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I estimate you can do it for $12.08. :)

If you want to do them a favor just do the labor for free.

Otherwise price it up like a normal job.
Well if for family or close friends and you are doing them a favor - it may just cost some steaks and some beer in place of labor charges:happyyes:
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
Wiring of controls is different. Wiring of main supply is the same at least for a typical air to air heat pump.
But there may be resistance duct heaters involved at some point within the system. The outside unit may be no different except for the controls, as mentioned.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
But there may be resistance duct heaters involved at some point within the system. The outside unit may be no different except for the controls, as mentioned.
Well the inside air handler is a separate component.

That air handler also gets power wiring same as it would if it were a stand alone heat source.

Though it is fairly common to see air handlers designed for electric heat strips used for heat pumps they can certainly be used on gas, oil or other fuel source air handlers as well, your back up heat is the other fuel source system and is connected to same control lead as the resistance heat would have been connected to in eletcric heatunits - and can be used with 2 stage gas valves if desired as well. Why kick on full backup heat if only one stage is all that is needed?
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Wiring of controls is different. Wiring of main supply is the same at least for a typical air to air heat pump.

But there may be resistance duct heaters involved at some point within the system. The outside unit may be no different except for the controls, as mentioned.


Here they always use back-up heat strips at the air handler. Even a normal house (not that large) may have 50-60 amps of back-up electric heat. When the weather gets cold enough you are really operating a head pump as an electric furnace.

Not only will you need a large 240V circuit run to the air handler instead of the typical 120V but it really changes your load calculation.

From what I have seen many people want to get away from gas alltogather. They get an electric convection range, next an electric water heater and then a heat pump with electric back up heat.

And that little 100 amp service just doesn't cut it any more.

This is why you have to visit the job site and then get with the HVAC contractor to see what they are actually installing.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
So if a homeowner ask you for a price to wire a 'heat pump' you do not include the air handler work in the price?

Seems doubtful. :D
I have wired many heat pumps that were "added" on to an existing system. So the answer is no, but I will be asking questions about whether there is a new air handler as well and about what it may be replacing. Sometimes it may be replacing something that has a circuit(s) that can be re-used.

For air to air systems where there was cooling before complete replacement of all equipment is not always necessary. If they have a newer gas furnace all you need is to change the outdoor unit and change some control wiring. You need to get details of the job before you can quote it - as you said earlier could be $250, could be $3000, depends on what needs to be done.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
Though it is fairly common to see air handlers designed for electric heat strips used for heat pumps they can certainly be used on gas, oil or other fuel source air handlers as well, your back up heat is the other fuel source system and is connected to same control lead as the resistance heat would have been connected to in eletcric heatunits - and can be used with 2 stage gas valves if desired as well. Why kick on full backup heat if only one stage is all that is needed?

Yes you can use gas and other fuels as a back-up heat source but for some reason that's not normally done here. Once I think about I have done a few that have used gas.

I think the HVAC guys like to sell the electric back up because that eliminates the need for a plumber. They figure electrical work is cheaper than gas lines. Any venting (exhaust) and cumbustion air.

A lot of the air handlers are in basements and these basements have been finished with no requard to combustion air at the furnace.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Yes you can use gas and other fuels as a back-up heat source but for some reason that's not normally done here. Once I think about I have done a few that have used gas.

I think the HVAC guys like to sell the electric back up because that eliminates the need for a plumber. They figure electrical work is cheaper than gas lines. Any venting (exhaust) and cumbustion air.

A lot of the air handlers are in basements and these basements have been finished with no requard to combustion air at the furnace.
Most HVAC guys around here are qualified to run gas lines, and usually have to plumb condensation lines even with electric units.

I think they often prefer electric units for a couple reasons. One they are not that expensive compared to a air handler with gas heater in it - so their upfront price is attractive to the customer. Two - sometimes they may find they don't want to deal with a situation where it will be tough to install venting - or at least not disrupt a finished space with the best route for venting the unit. They pass some of those difficulties on to another trade to some extent, may cost more to wire an electric unit and the electrician may have some similar issues - but that puts the problem on someone else.

Combustion air is not as much of a concern with high efficiency units - as you are usually supposed to pipe the combustion air to the unit instead of drawing it from the room.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The most u can get. 3 people u don't want to work for. Friends, family and neighbors.

Works for big city people. Come to rural area and many customers are considered "friends" as you likely have some history with them in a nonprofessional manner. Most of the people I do regular work for are fairly good "friends" and some are even relatives - though maybe a few generations apart and are not close relatives.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Works for big city people. Come to rural area and many customers are considered "friends" as you likely have some history with them in a nonprofessional manner. Most of the people I do regular work for are fairly good "friends" and some are even relatives - though maybe a few generations apart and are not close relatives.

I suggest there is a difference between friends and aquintances no matter how rural.
 
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