20 Amp (12 wire) in dining rooms?

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weepster

Member
the liscensed guy I worked with told me all dining rooms must be 12 wire, or 20 amps. I looked it up in the book, because that's what I like to do, and 210.52 B.1.? or so references if the room comes off the small appliance branch circuit it shall be 20 amp, but what if the room has a dedicated circuit? Thank you
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Welcome to the forum. :smile: That is a very good question and one that has caused very long threads here.

OK as I understand it.

ALL the receptacles in the dinning room that are required by the NEC are required to be supplied with 20 amp circuits.


Now if you add additional ones beyond the required I am not sure what the consensus was. I doubt you will get a black and white answer. Personally I would just use 12 AWG with 20 amp breakers and move on.
 

brantmacga

Señor Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Former Child
. . . . references if the room comes off the small appliance branch circuit it shall be 20 amp, but what if the room has a dedicated circuit? Thank you

If its a dedicated circuit, it has become another small-appliance branch circuit, and it must follow the rules for a SABC (which means don't tap off a dining room recep to catch that one living room recep on the other side of the wall).
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I see another 300 post coming.
I was taught to use #12 in dining rooms. Often cheap way out is take hr to dining room first then to a SA receptacle in kitchen. I would not try to push the wording in nec to wire a dining room in #14 for anything other than lights. If you do then get ready for battle with the inspector. Dining room to me is still a SA circuit and that calls for #12 min..
 

charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
If its a dedicated circuit, it has become another small-appliance branch circuit, and it must follow the rules for a SABC. . . .
I agree with this perspective. I will put it another way, however. If a circuit serves a dining room receptacle, then that fact causes the circuit to become classified as an SA circuit. So there really isn't any such thing as using a dedicated circuit as a means of going beyond the minimum required SA circuits.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
What is the reason for this requirement? What is in a dinning room that would require a 20 amp circuit? And this is coming from a "pro 20A / # 12 guy"!:D

Hotplates, coffee makers and other kitchen stuff that you might use in the dining room.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
What is the reason for this requirement? What is in a dinning room that would require a 20 amp circuit? And this is coming from a "pro 20A / # 12 guy"!:D


Many dining rooms have buffets. Buffets have toasers, coffee makers, hot plates, roasters, etc. on them at meal time.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Make sense! Oh and circular saw.:smile:

Heck, I plug in my air compresser, table saw and drill press. Buffets make great work benches!
Drilling.gif
 

Twoskinsoneman

Senior Member
Location
West Virginia, USA NEC: 2020
Occupation
Facility Senior Electrician
I've read a couple of threads discussing this topic but never weighed in so I'm going to now :smile:

My take is this. You can't have recepts serving the counter top that are not on a SABC so that same stands true for all wall and floor receptacle outlets in the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area
 

M. D.

Senior Member
With our world changing so fast as to new needs if i was to wire a house today for myself nothing would be under 12 and prefer it in emt

I thought the plan was to use less in the future,... less gas ,.. less coal less electricity,... less ,..well less everything,.. what was it that B.O. said ,.. something about suvs ,. air conditioning ,..food and not being able to use and have them as we wish ,.. I know crossing a line .. but that is the plan I figure we will be running # 14 for SABC and #18 for general purpose:smile:
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I thought the plan was to use less in the future,... less gas ,.. less coal less electricity,... less ,..well less everything,.. what was it that B.O. said ,.. something about suvs ,. air conditioning ,..food and not being able to use and have them as we wish ,.. I know crossing a line .. but that is the plan I figure we will be running # 14 for SABC and #18 for general purpose:smile:
Nice plan and i am doing my part to reduce use where we can. Lets look at the past 100 years and our usage. In the 60's i grew up without central AC in PA. and was not living in low class. Simply never exspected it. Thru the years we simply keep adding.
BO sure wont be doing without. Services 50 years ago where 100 amp. Do you really see us cutting down ?
 

weepster

Member
Sorry didn't mean to start a whole thing up again, it just seemed odd to me to put a SABC in a dining room, I have never run any appliances in my DR. I don't question the use of 12 wire/20 amp for appliance use, but what's to say I'll ever use an appliance in my DR. I have been rewiring my old house one room at a time and use 14 wire for HR's in all the bedrooms, knowing I'll use only compact fluorescents and my alarm clock has no real draw.
 

justin59

Member
Location
loma linda, ca
I thought the plan was to use less in the future,... less gas ,.. less coal less electricity,... less ,..well less everything:

I think we're heading towards cleaner more so than less, especially since we are relying so heavily on technology in every day life. soon we'll be plugging in our work trucks every night and getting the power from the sun and wind. IMO
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
What is the reason for this requirement? What is in a dinning room that would require a 20 amp circuit?

I don't question the use of 12 wire/20 amp for appliance use, but what's to say I'll ever use an appliance in my DR.
Believe it or not, some people really do dine in their dining room. :cool:

I have been rewiring my old house one room at a time and use 14 wire for HR's in all the bedrooms, knowing I'll use only compact fluorescents and my alarm clock has no real draw.
I often use 20a for other receptacle circuits, mainly because I can place more receptacles on them, and placing lighting on a separate circuit minimizes a 100% blackout when a single circuit trips.
 
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