Can I run 120 VAC in a hand railing

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Hi,
I work at a company that makes an aluminum railing for decks and patios. The tubing is an alluminum extrusion with vertical hollow 2" square posts and various style hollow enclosed railing caps that run horizontal between the posts.

I would like to use the inside of this tubing as a raceway for running 120 VAC and install outlets in the posts

Who's approval would I need to be able to use the product for this purpose and how would I go about it.

Thanks,
Tom
 

M. D.

Senior Member
It is funny you ask ,.. today I got a Holt newsletter and this was one of the questions ,. not the same but similar ...

Q2. We hired someone to install receptacles in the soffit of our house for Christmas lights. The contractor installed a cable through the rain gutter downspout to get to the roof. Is this really allowed?

A2. Surprisingly enough, nothing in the Code says you can?t, so by default it is allowed. Using UF cable as a substitute for NM or NMC cable for the wet location [340.10(3) and 340.10(4)], securing and supporting seems to be the only issue?but 334.30(B)(1) allows unsupported cables where fished between concealed access points in finished buildings or structures.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
It is funny you ask ,.. today I got a Holt newsletter and this was one of the questions ,. not the same but similar ...

In that scenario the downspout is not being used as a raceway since it's UF cable.
 

raider1

Senior Member
Staff member
Location
Logan, Utah
I agree with Rob, UF cable run in a raingutter is very different than single conductors run through a handrail. Single conductors must be run in a raceway or be part of a chapter 3 wiring method whereas UF cable itself qualifys as a wiring method.

Chris
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
Hi,
I work at a company that makes an aluminum railing for decks and patios. The tubing is an alluminum extrusion with vertical hollow 2" square posts and various style hollow enclosed railing caps that run horizontal between the posts.

I would like to use the inside of this tubing as a raceway for running 120 VAC and install outlets in the posts

Who's approval would I need to be able to use the product for this purpose and how would I go about it.

Thanks,
Tom
I have seen such extrusions that have openings for outlets so I am guessing someone may already have done something similar. If so, it should be a straightforward, albeit expensive thing to get NRTL approval.

Or you could go the free way and just tell your customers to use UF or some other already approved wiring method such as smurf tubing.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
If this is a prefabricated product I would bet you would need a third party listing to approve this assembly. If it is field wired it may be a different animal. Not sure about that-- anyone else.
 

Inspectorcliff

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
Would this?

Would this?

Would this fall under the same category as, in floor boxes, "If I leave the cap on them, then there tamperproof, RIGHT?" As I tried to explain to him, no, I can't read TP any where on the single opening or the brass cover plate. Will it always be this difficult?? Don't bother answering that. Thanks. 2cents.
 
Thankyou all for your comments...I was

Thankyou all for your comments...I was

... hoping to be able to make up electrical connections inside the railing tubing without using j -boxes.I would prefer that the 120V outlets fit flush with the outside surface of the vertical aluminum posts with drip proof covers The only way I thought I could get away with this was to get the railing to qualify as a raceway.

I have read the NEC definition of raceway but perhaps I am misinterpreting it.

The direct buriel cable is a good idea I'll just have to use boxes if I have to go that way.

Thanks,
Tom
 

Inspectorcliff

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
... hoping to be able to make up electrical connections inside the railing tubing without using j -boxes.I would prefer that the 120V outlets fit flush with the outside surface of the vertical aluminum posts with drip proof covers The only way I thought I could get away with this was to get the railing to qualify as a raceway.

I have read the NEC definition of raceway but perhaps I am misinterpreting it.

The direct buriel cable is a good idea I'll just have to use boxes if I have to go that way.

Thanks,
Tom
Mr. Tom, you may want to read 110.3(A) and see if any of the inspectors would object to this install.
I am guessing they might. Without the 3rd party testing agency.
 
If this is a prefabricated product I would bet you would need a third party listing to approve this assembly. If it is field wired it may be a different animal. Not sure about that-- anyone else.

... hoping to be able to make up electrical connections inside the railing tubing without using j -boxes.I would prefer that the 120V outlets fit flush with the outside surface of the vertical aluminum posts with drip proof covers The only way I thought I could get away with this was to get the railing to qualify as a raceway.

I have read the NEC definition of raceway but perhaps I am misinterpreting it.

The direct buriel cable is a good idea I'll just have to use boxes if I have to go that way.

Thanks,
Tom

Mr. Tom, you may want to read 110.3(A) and see if any of the inspectors would object to this install.
I am guessing they might. Without the 3rd party testing agency.


Manufacturing a railing is one thing.

Installing electrical in the railing at the factory is another.
It could possibly be done, but there would be no listing on the assembly. Without a listing, I do not know too many inspectors who would approve the installation.
 
Hi,
I work at a company that makes an aluminum railing for decks and patios. The tubing is an alluminum extrusion with vertical hollow 2" square posts and various style hollow enclosed railing caps that run horizontal between the posts.

I would like to use the inside of this tubing as a raceway for running 120 VAC and install outlets in the posts

Who's approval would I need to be able to use the product for this purpose and how would I go about it.

Thanks,
Tom

There are alternative cables that can be instaled without a raceway, but you need to be careful that all the components meet the outdoor criteria, such as boxes cable conenctors and outlets. It also needs to be servicable and repairable. Outdoor installation would require it to be on a GFCI circuit. If it is modular and requires field assembly of different section, the installation becomes even more cumbersome.

I would consider this an engineering issue.
 

realolman

Senior Member
Seems to me to be a pretty crappy install to install uf in an aluminum rainspout.

Is it required to be bonded to the EGC? Do the joints need to be bonded?

I asked in a post a short time ago if I used metal cord grips in a pvc box if they had to be bonded to the EGC, and I believe the consensus was that they did, because they were "likely to become energized".

If I were the inspector, I don't think I'd allow uf to be installed in a rainspout. I think rainspout would be much more likely to become energized than metal cord grips in a pvc box.
 
Last edited:

M. D.

Senior Member
Hi,
I work at a company that makes an aluminum railing for decks and patios. The tubing is an alluminum extrusion with vertical hollow 2" square posts and various style hollow enclosed railing caps that run horizontal between the posts.

I would like to use the inside of this tubing as a raceway for running 120 VAC and install outlets in the posts

Who's approval would I need to be able to use the product for this purpose and how would I go about it.

Thanks,
Tom

Given some of the stuff I've seen with a NRTL sticker I think this idea could easily get approved.. Here is a link to U.L. get in touch and get moving before someone beats you to it:smile:
 

jeremysterling

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
... hoping to be able to make up electrical connections inside the railing tubing without using j -boxes.I would prefer that the 120V outlets fit flush with the outside surface of the vertical aluminum posts with drip proof covers The only way I thought I could get away with this was to get the railing to qualify as a raceway.

I have read the NEC definition of raceway but perhaps I am misinterpreting it.

The direct buriel cable is a good idea I'll just have to use boxes if I have to go that way.

Thanks,
Tom

Sounds like these joints would be inaccessible or is this like wiremold?
 
thanks for your feedback

thanks for your feedback

The railing cap can be removed by removing two screws from each post 20 ft max lengths or through the cutouts in the post for the outlets so I believe access is very good.

Thanks,
Tom
 

steve66

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
Engineer
I'm with Dennis, field installed changes everything. As long as the boxes & conductors are approved for the location who cares how you get there. Up the downspout seems a bit extreme, but if that is good a handrail certainly is.


But I think it also depends on who does the designing, and what is included in the handrail instructions.

If an electrician runs a cable throguh the handrail, and installs an outlet box, then I think its covered under the NEC, and a listing wouldn't normally be needed.

If you install the same box and wireway at the factory, it becomes part of your product, and a listing would then be required (at least by most inspectors.)

If you make the handrail & include instructions telling the contractor they can install a cable and an outlet box in the handrail, I think you would still want the listing.
 
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