safety guy

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76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
Davis landed this discussion. Even if the cost of PPE lands in your own pocket. We could go on for hours/days on work that we do that must stay online. There are construction guys and there are maintenance guys. Us service guys can't shut stuff down 98% of the time. We go in and do what's needed. I give two thumbs up to all of you who say shut it down. I agree with you whole heartedly.

Do any of you argueing here own an amp clamp, a loop impedance tester, a thermal imager????? We have to do online work sometimes, it's just the nature of the beast.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
As one of "the guys" working for someone else out in the field, I really wish they would enforce PPE and safe practices. Not only to level the playing field, but for my kids' and wife's sake, and mine.

TaDa! Someone gets the whole point.

If this is going to catch on, They have to make it known and accessible to the people doing the work and not some mysterious realm that those in the know deal with. I just spent $100 on 00 gloves and leathers - out of pocket, because I want them and no one else is interested in paying. I'll add the other stuff over time, but it's a huge expense for an employee and I know that my boss has the responsibility to buy it in the first place which makes it all the more crappy.

Right, your employer is required by OSHA law to not only provide you with the proper training required for your job but as of last summer, they are required to buy you the PPE necessary for your job. This is not hidden away in some small footnote of OSHA, this was a major ruling last summer. Show it to him.


Just wanted to add this - Accidents don't happen when you expect them to nor are they always dependent on human error or they wouldn't be accidents. That's the whole point of the safety gear, to cover you when something you're not expecting to have happen, happens.

Exactly! Safe work practices, knowledge, and experience are the first line of defense. When that fails, your PPE is the last line of defense.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Do any of you argueing here own an amp clamp, a loop impedance tester, a thermal imager????? We have to do online work sometimes, it's just the nature of the beast.

Those tasks are specifically allowed to be done energized (Duh) by the 70E, they do not require an EEWP but still require the proper PPE and are listed specifically in the task tables.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Over the years they get to be a lot of devices and systems that connect to this on feeder trough, or wireway, and if you want to add something new you have no choice but to do a hot tap, or shut half the plant down.

Um, that is a choice.

As far as arc flash gear making men safe and saving lives, that's all good. My biggest beef with the whole thing is enforcement. Its a lot of expense to buy several arc flash suits for me and my men, training, upkeep on the gloves and equipment, which in turn drives up my labor rate.

Any idea what a major accident or fatality does to your labor rate?


So when it comes to pricing a job, I've got extra expenses that this other so called electrical contractor hasn't.

Well then flaunt it. Add to your literature and quotes that all your guys are NFPA 70E trained and follow NFPA 70E practices. When you add that (And can back it up) the customer should go to the other guy and ask the same question. I have been down this road many times.

Many industrial plants are now pre-qualifiing EC's requiring proof on 70E compliance to even be able to bid jobs. Here is an example that we had to do to work in an auto plant.
 

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DavisIMI

Member
Many industrial plants are now pre-qualifiing EC's requiring proof on 70E compliance to even be able to bid jobs. Here is an example that we had to do to work in an auto plant./QUOTE]

And I know of some that wont let you in the plant if you mention it.
 

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
Those tasks are specifically allowed to be done energized (Duh) by the 70E, they do not require an EEWP but still require the proper PPE and are listed specifically in the task tables.

"Duh" your butt Zog. What I was getting to was all the concerned people saying/stating no matter what we can always shut it down. I am a stickler on safety, SOP and PPE, so ease up.

I am a maintenance electrician, and so aren't you. You're the one always yelling to have the juice off. From what I know of you, you do alot of PQA. You do that with the juice off? Frankly, I don't give a terd about what 70E states. Do I abide? You betcha. Do I preach it,...you betcha ya'. Does 70E cover what we can't always do? Heck no. There is no difference in taking amperage readings, thermal imaging testing, you name it in what some people quote here as unacceptable.

I think 70E is to cover industries and nimwits from doing what is very potentionally dangerous for insurance reasons.

If one doesn't understand the guidelines of 70E by instinct, they don't have the right to work in the field. Did you need 70E to set you straight Zog? No, you didn't.

What's 70E for???? I'll leave it at that and see what I get for responses.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
I am not sure why you are all upset, the (duh) was intended to point out that I (And the 70E) are stating the obvious, that voltage measurements (And other measurement tasks like IR scanning) are allowed to be done when energized. If you shut it down you can't take any measurements. THe "duh" was not aimed at you at all.
 

76nemo

Senior Member
Location
Ogdensburg, NY
I am not sure why you are all upset, the (duh) was intended to point out that I (And the 70E) are stating the obvious, that voltage measurements (And other measurement tasks like IR scanning) are allowed to be done when energized. If you shut it down you can't take any measurements. THe "duh" was not aimed at you at all.


Thanks for the reply Zog, guess I took you wrong. I am all for shutting it down when "we" can, but it is not always permissible. So many yell to have it shut down, my point was that we can't do alot of things when it's offline. I apologize.
 

zog

Senior Member
Location
Charlotte, NC
Thanks for the reply Zog, guess I took you wrong. I am all for shutting it down when "we" can, but it is not always permissible. So many yell to have it shut down, my point was that we can't do alot of things when it's offline. I apologize.

That is one of the few reasonable exceptions that make sense in the 70E.
 
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