Screw-in LED lamps

Status
Not open for further replies.

fredelect

Member
I have a lot of HID fixtures that we are considering installing screw-in LED lamps. These HID fixtures are fed with either 208, 240 or 277 volt circuits. The LED lamps require the ballast to be bypassed wjhich is not a concern. The issue I have is that the existing fixtures have medium based sockets. NEC article 210.6 (c) says if the circuit exceeds 120 volts I need to have a mogul based socket. The LED lamp is rated 120-277 volts. My AHJ is only concerned with meeting Article 410.137, that the LED lamp is "listed" which it is. I think without having a mogul base socket I am violating 210.6. What do you think?
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
210.6(C) allows 120 to 277 volts to ground circuit to supply six different items that are sub items to 210.6(C). The luminaire with mogul base lampholder is one of them.

Another item (item 1) is Listed electric-discharge or listed light-emitting diode-type luminaires. I think you are ok based on this, but whether or not you can modify the luminaire by changing from the HID to a LED lamp is more of a listing issue then a NEC issue IMO.
 

fredelect

Member
210.6 (C) (1) says, in part, "...listed LED luminaires." Is this screw-in lamp a lamp or a luminaire? If it is considered a luminaire then I can agree it's compliant. But, the handbook talks about a luminaire with an integral autotransformer which supplies 120 volts to the lampholder. This LED lamp is installed after the lampholder.

As far as the fixtures "listing" goes , this is a compleatly different question which I have an issue with also. My AHJ wont let me install a screw-in medium base socket into a fixture that has a bi-pin PL type socket, so I can install a screw-in LED lamp but he will let me remove/bypass a ballast. I don't see the difference. I think both are violating the orginal listing of the fixture. But again, a different issue, sort of:huh:
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
210.6 (C) (1) says, in part, "...listed LED luminaires." Is this screw-in lamp a lamp or a luminaire? If it is considered a luminaire then I can agree it's compliant. But, the handbook talks about a luminaire with an integral autotransformer which supplies 120 volts to the lampholder. This LED lamp is installed after the lampholder.

As far as the fixtures "listing" goes , this is a compleatly different question which I have an issue with also. My AHJ wont let me install a screw-in medium base socket into a fixture that has a bi-pin PL type socket, so I can install a screw-in LED lamp but he will let me remove/bypass a ballast. I don't see the difference. I think both are violating the orginal listing of the fixture. But again, a different issue, sort of:huh:
Violation of original listing of luminaire is likely. Now can we install listed retrofit kits since original listing of the luminaire wouldn't have included such a retrofit kit? But yet the retrofit kit is listed to install in the old luminaire. Maybe not exactly what applies to the OP but how to interpret such conflicting information?
 

mirawho

Senior Member
Location
Sun Valley, CA
Hey Fred, I am curious what the wattage rating was on the HID's you are replacing as most HPS, MV and MH lamps do have mogul lamp bases. And most HID fixtures I have seen have mogul base sockets for the previous reason. Also, have you looked at the light you are replacing the HID's with? The HID uses the reflector for the light angle but most LED's have a fixed angle as they are directional. Make sure you know you are getting the same degree envelope that you got with the old HID's.
 

mirawho

Senior Member
Location
Sun Valley, CA
Also, Fred, a lamp is a lamp, period. The LED lamp is not a fixture, just a lamp. And like Kwired said, once you modify any listed item, even if the parts you are installing are listed, it is no longer considered a listed item as the original listing was for the unit in the state it was manufactured in. It seems like it would be less labor intensive to replace the luminaires instead of modifying them.
 

fredelect

Member
Hey Fred, I am curious what the wattage rating was on the HID's you are replacing as most HPS, MV and MH lamps do have mogul lamp bases. And most HID fixtures I have seen have mogul base sockets for the previous reason. Also, have you looked at the light you are replacing the HID's with? The HID uses the reflector for the light angle but most LED's have a fixed angle as they are directional. Make sure you know you are getting the same degree envelope that you got with the old HID's.

The lamps are any where from 50 to 100 watt MH ED-17 lamps, all med. base.
 

fredelect

Member
Also, Fred, a lamp is a lamp, period. The LED lamp is not a fixture, just a lamp. And like Kwired said, once you modify any listed item, even if the parts you are installing are listed, it is no longer considered a listed item as the original listing was for the unit in the state it was manufactured in. It seems like it would be less labor intensive to replace the luminaires instead of modifying them.

I agree with both of you. But, my AHJ is saying any listed retro fit is ok to use and he's "Da Man". I still think it's not quite correct. I hope the code will address this as it's a happining thing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top