California 3-way

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guschash

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
Does anyone have a picture of the " California" 3 way. Ran into it today. Trace the wires for one 3-way, the 4-way and the wires coming from the panel. I can not find the wires from the one 3-way that goes from the house to the barn. I look every place.
 

JohnJ0906

Senior Member
Location
Baltimore, MD
Does anyone have a picture of the " California" 3 way. Ran into it today. Trace the wires for one 3-way, the 4-way and the wires coming from the panel. I can not find the wires from the one 3-way that goes from the house to the barn. I look every place.


carter.gif
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
It's been called many names. Illegal now but it works . Guess your allowed to fix it. Very bad idea but it keeps changing the neutral. Many things work but are not safe or legal. Not cheap to fix right.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Does anyone have a picture of the " California" 3 way. Ran into it today. Trace the wires for one 3-way, the 4-way and the wires coming from the panel. I can not find the wires from the one 3-way that goes from the house to the barn. I look every place.
OK, guys, try to stick a 4-way in that switching arrangement and maintain the polarity reverals in the lampholder. . . :)

I think this diagram of a lampholder polarity stable "california 3-way" might be more on target:

img33.jpg
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Funny, I don't think I've ever heard that called a California. To me, a California is a fourway that steals a neutral from the switchleg side for the light, allowing 2-wire travellers to be used.

It's usually called a traveling bus threeway on the forum.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
Funny, I don't think I've ever heard that called a California. To me, a California is a fourway that steals a neutral from the switchleg side for the light, allowing 2-wire travellers to be used.

It's usually called a traveling bus threeway on the forum.

I was taught the switching method in my diagram by the Master that I apprenticed under, ole' Paul Denny, in Fremont, NE. We never bothered with 4-ways. Paul Denny taught it to me as a California threeway.

I stuck the 4-ways in it during a discussion over at Electrical-Contractor.net and drew the diagram above, at that time. When I inserted it, a few months later, in a thread here, Benny dubbed it the "traveling buss 3-way".
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
How would this ever be legit
:grin:
Up until somewhere in the 1920's, there was no Code requirement that the lampholder had to have the neutral on the screw shell. One will find examples of this "Carter" 3-way in electrical inspector approved installations from the first decades of the 20th Century.

Many two story homes that were wired with Knob and Tube had lighting on the main stairs that was controlled by a 3-way switching setup.

One of the 3-way switching hookups that was used was this polarity-reversing method.

One brought a hot and a neutral to each switch location and hooked them to the switch traveler terminals, and then sent one wire off to the lampholder from each switch. There was a real economy here, for the installing electrician.

I have found that many times, on little two story homes, that the hot and neutral came from different circuits, on occasion. This is a particular delight to discover on a service upgrade, when one takes one of the two circuits (both should be on the same service leg) and inadvertently puts it on the "other side" of the panel.

When the light should be OFF with both the screw shell and the center button HOT, suddenly, becomes a 240 volt bolted short circuit.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
Funny, I don't think I've ever heard that called a California. To me, a California is a fourway that steals a neutral from the switchleg side for the light, allowing 2-wire travellers to be used.

It's usually called a traveling bus threeway on the forum.

I think this is what you are referring to.
ry%3D400
 

guschash

Senior Member
Location
Ohio
The problem I having is I can't find where the wires leave the house. The hot and neutral are #12 and also a #6 leave from the panel in the house in 2" conduit and in the barn they come into a subpanel. The neutral goes to one terminal ( on the 4-way ) and the hot goes to the other terminal ( on the 4 way ) and from the other barn the travels land on other the other terminals on the 4-way and also from this location the wire coming from the common terminal goes to the light. The 3 way from the house goes to J-box in the baesment from there its out through the foundation. Now there is a deck right outside without tiring up the deck I can see other j-box. My thinking is it must go to the barn from here but I don't see anywhere in the barn or on the outside for that matter. Sorry this is so long, I am trying to explain it the best I can.
 
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