Is there a better way?

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brockbone

Member
Location
Glendale, CA
How do I hard wire 6 low voltage transformers (landscape lighting) (6 'zones') controlled by an Astro time clock, override switch, and 6 motion detectors that pick up after 10:00PM when the Time clock shuts down the circuit.
My concern is back feeding the motion detectors and/or the time clock.
If I can avoid using contactors I wish to.
Not interested in using "home automation" tech.

So here is what I have come up with: Power Source (single circuit)connects to Line Side's of Override Switch and Astro Time Clock, and Power Source also parallel connected to Line side of Motion Detectors (daisy chained power, separate switch legs coming back connected to each of 6 transformers). Load sides of Override Switch and Time Clock connected to the 6 transformers.
Once I eliminated the photo cell control and added the "Astro" Timer it became pretty straight forward.....i think

Which brings me to my next question, do?s back feeding the time clock on its load side damage it if it is 'off'? I know it is not a problem with mechanical ones but the Asto is electronic.

If anyone has a better idea please let me know.
 

e57

Senior Member
If anyone has a better idea please let me know.
Depends on the design - 6 zones - each with it's own MS, and one time clock with over-ride? The back fed timeclock will work - but not a fantastic design in Line Voltage - makes more sense with Wattstopper low voltage motion sensors. This keeps all the line voltage in one place for TS purposes, and you can get them in a DIN rail mounted version.

Or use this
 
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brockbone

Member
Location
Glendale, CA
Lighting Control Dilemma

Lighting Control Dilemma

The set-up is this:
In my Bosses front yard he wants......
6 "zones" of low voltage lighting, with 1 transformer controlling 1 zone for a total of 6 L.V. Transformers.
All lights come on at Sundown.
All lights go off at 10:00 PM.
At 10:00 PM all lights become 'intrusion' detectors. One motion detector for each zone of the 6 zones.
All capable of being over-ridden by a single switch located inside the front door.
Turn the switch on and all lights come on.

I tend to go with the 'old-school' 120V motion detectors for cost and simplicity of operation.
But I am not opposed to useing a lighting control panel IF it will get the job done AND be reliable.


REPLY:Depends on the design - 6 zones - each with it's own MS, and one time clock with over-ride? The back fed timeclock will work - but not a fantastic design in Line Voltage - makes more sense with Wattstopper low voltage motion sensors. This keeps all the line voltage in one place for TS purposes, and you can get them in a DIN rail mounted version.
Or use the W/S LP8
If anyone has a better idea please let me know. Scratching my head...Brock
 
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480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Why start another thread just to ask the question again? How about responding in the same thread you're referring to?
 
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charlie b

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Lockport, IL
Occupation
Retired Electrical Engineer
480 is right. I have combined the two threads into this one. I have tried to edit out the duplicated statements. The flow of information may not be as clean as one could wish. But it is what it is.
 

ohmhead

Senior Member
Location
ORLANDO FLA
Perfect. Thats What I come up with. So backfeeding a Intermatic Astro Electronic Time Clock when it is "off" is ok?

Well it does not matter its all a common supply its 120 volts the astro TC when closed or open would not matter why do you think it would be a problem explain or show me a schematic why ?

Even if its a electronic scr or a triac switch at 120 volts if is not turned on it will not flow and at the same potential its not a problem there is no backfeed.
 

brockbone

Member
Location
Glendale, CA
I do not know how the electronics 'are' inside of this control and do not have enough knowledge to venture a guess. For me it is an expensive piece of equipment and I would'nt want to damage it by backfeeding the Load side of the T.C. when it is in 'open'
operation with the Switchleg sides of M C and/or Override switch.
I designed the circuits the same as you did, omitting the Photo Cell and using the Astro feature of the T.C., but I did'nt draw it as nice.
 

CFL

Member
I do not know how the electronics 'are' inside of this control and do not have enough knowledge to venture a guess. For me it is an expensive piece of equipment and I would'nt want to damage it by backfeeding the Load side of the T.C. when it is in 'open'
operation with the Switchleg sides of M C and/or Override switch.

You could just add a relay if you wanted to play it safe.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
I do not know how the electronics 'are' inside of this control and do not have enough knowledge to venture a guess. For me it is an expensive piece of equipment and I would'nt want to damage it by backfeeding the Load side of the T.C. when it is in 'open'
operation with the Switchleg sides of M C and/or Override switch.
I designed the circuits the same as you did, omitting the Photo Cell and using the Astro feature of the T.C., but I did'nt draw it as nice.
I'm fairly certain the TC uses mechanical contacts for the output stage.

That being said, the diagram ohmhead drew will not work. When a MS is tripped, it will "backfeed" the other 5 transformers. You will need a means to separate the six circuits in the basic off state so a tripped MS will only turn on its respective zone. Additionally, you may [will?] need sunrise-to-sundown, all-off control... or the MS's will be turning zones on during the day.

Short of an all-out lighting control package, your most cost effective route would be to use a microcontroller with a minimum 6 N.O. contact, 120V-rated outputs, and at least 7 full voltage inputs (6 for MS and one for a PhotoCell for daytime off progamming)
 

CFL

Member
I'm fairly certain the TC uses mechanical contacts for the output stage.

That being said, the diagram ohmhead drew will not work. When a MS is tripped, it will "backfeed" the other 5 transformers. You will need a means to separate the six circuits in the basic off state so a tripped MS will only turn on its respective zone. Additionally, you may [will?] need sunrise-to-sundown, all-off control... or the MS's will be turning zones on during the day.

Short of an all-out lighting control package, your most cost effective route would be to use a microcontroller with a minimum 6 N.O. contact, 120V-rated outputs, and at least 7 full voltage inputs (6 for MS and one for a PhotoCell for daytime off progamming)

Take another look at that diagram. I think it would work fine.
 
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