FM200 cylinders in electrical room

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m sleem

Senior Member
Location
Cairo
That might be not a code issue to have it in the electrical room, but if i have the Chance to locate it outside the room what is your opinions?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Assuming you have the required clearances from the electrical equipment are met, I see no issue with it in the room.
That being said, my preference is for an electrical room to be just that...an electrical room without other uses, however often that is no possible as the space for electrical and mechanical equipment is limited by the building designer.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
What Don said. There's no code issue but maybe a personal preference. On the other hand, "electrical rooms" often have a variety of other services entering the building at that location, including telephone, cable, and even sprinkler. Let the fire guys worry about it, as long as you have all the required clearances.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I don't see an issue as long as the tanks are in a safe place and are properly strapped down and secured. Installing a "shut-off" switch, I'm guessing, would probably violate a fire or building code in some way. The solenoids that are attached to the tanks are supervised by the fire suppression system. Any shut-off would cause a trouble condition on that system.

What would be the point in shutting it off while you're in the electrical room ? If a fire occurs while you're in that room what could possibly happen ?
 

JRW 70

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Central Missouri
Occupation
Testing and Engineer
FM200 is
R-227ea ( I believe ) and when the decomposition
temperature is reached, HF gas is is a byproduct. HF in the presence
of moisture ( H2O ) will form Hydrofluoric Acid. So if permitted
it would be good to be stop the system if there is any one in
the room. The HF acid may be far worse threat than a mild
electrical burn. SO it needs to be done on a risk based
analysis. For example, are the doors to the room gas tight
( or at least semi-gas tight ) I don't know but an R-227ea
fire suppression system may stop the fire, but hydrofluoric
acid can and will dissolve glass, concrete and practically
everything else in the room (of electrical importance)
If the room is gas tight I suppose it would protect the rest
of the building, but your switchgear/panels will be sacrificed
in the activation of this system.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
FM200 is
R-227ea ( I believe ) and when the decomposition
temperature is reached, HF gas is is a byproduct. HF in the presence
of moisture ( H2O ) will form Hydrofluoric Acid. So if permitted
it would be good to be stop the system if there is any one in
the room. The HF acid may be far worse threat than a mild
electrical burn. SO it needs to be done on a risk based
analysis. For example, are the doors to the room gas tight
( or at least semi-gas tight ) I don't know but an R-227ea
fire suppression system may stop the fire, but hydrofluoric
acid can and will dissolve glass, concrete and practically
everything else in the room (of electrical importance)
If the room is gas tight I suppose it would protect the rest
of the building, but your switchgear/panels will be sacrificed
in the activation of this system.
I think we need more clarification on this. I was under the impression that the tanks were being stored in this room for a separately protected area and not that the room was the area or equipment being protected. If the latter is the case why would someone design a system where the release of the suppression agent will corrode the equipment it is looking to protect ?
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
FM200 is R-227ea ( I believe ) and when the decomposition
temperature is reached, HF gas is is a byproduct. HF in the presence
of moisture ( H2O ) will form Hydrofluoric Acid. So if permitted
it would be good to be stop the system if there is any one in
the room. The HF acid may be far worse threat than a mild
electrical burn. SO it needs to be done on a risk based
analysis. For example, are the doors to the room gas tight
( or at least semi-gas tight ) I don't know but an R-227ea
fire suppression system may stop the fire, but hydrofluoric
acid can and will dissolve glass, concrete and practically
everything else in the room (of electrical importance)
If the room is gas tight I suppose it would protect the rest
of the building, but your switchgear/panels will be sacrificed
in the activation of this system.

In theory, yes, decomposition products might produce some HF. However, this requires prolonged contact at the requisite temperatures. Once the system is activated, the fire goes "poof" and the only hot surfaces will be whatever received flame impingement and they'll be cooling down right quick. No one in the industry considers this to be a serious risk for a typical IT room install.
 

JRW 70

Senior Member
Location
Eastern Central Missouri
Occupation
Testing and Engineer
I checked with our safety division, and we still
use Halon (we have hundreds of cylinders apparently)
And the decomp. of Halons can be HF, and they agree
with what was stated above. In other words a system
that should not pose the risks I mentioned above.
Not too many things scare me that much anymore,
but Hydrofluoric Acid is definately one.

Most of our gaseous fire supression systems
use Argon. The Halon is only at one facility
and remains there by an ex post facto filing
by legal.

JR
 
Last edited:

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I found the following interesting articles on line :

Discontinuation of Halon 1301

http://www.associatedfire.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/halon_1301_dupont_cef1_msds_sheet.pdf

And a FAQ on FM-200 :

http://www2.dupont.com/FE/en_US/products/FM200_faq.html

I found these two to be pertinent to this thread :

8. How can I be sure that DuPont? FM-200? is safe for people?

Exhaustive testing has been conducted to assess the safety of FM-200?, giving it the most comprehensive toxicity database of any clean agent. In fact, FM-200? is so safe that it is used as a propellant in pharmaceutical inhalers that dispense asthma medications. FM-200? is a single, pure compound; there is no active ingredient in FM-200?.

9. Is thermal decomposition a problem with DuPont? FM-200??

The vast majority (>95%) of applications of FM-200? involve the protection of Class A hazards. Extensive testing shows that the levels of HF produced in extinguishing typical Class A fires are well below hazardous levels based on the dangerous toxic load (DTL) of HF. Moreover, these levels present no threat to electronics or other sensitive equipment. For fast-growing Class B fires, HF levels may exceed the human DTL depending upon the size of the fire and the volume of the protected area, and HF levels may also present a threat to equipment. In most cases this is a moot point, as the temperatures and levels of toxic combustion products such as carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and smoke render the atmosphere toxic and corrosive even before the discharge of FM-200?. There is no such thing as an "ordinary combustible fire." Fires are not combustible, they are undergoing combustion.
 
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