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Thread: AFCI on an existing circuit ??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    NC & IN
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    AFCI on an existing circuit ??

    I have to make two existing outlets switched outlets (top of the duplex)

    I will have to remove the old metal boxes because of box fill. But I will put the existing (decorative) outlets back in the new outlet box.

    Then I will have to install a new wall switch and box. I'm useing romex #12

    Do I need AFCI protection, as per code ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Here is a little insight from the code making panel

    Submitter: David Zinck, Wiring Inspector / Rep. Newburyport, MA

    Recommendation: Add two additional sentences.
    This requirement shall apply to new dwellings or new branch circuits in
    existing dwellings. It shall not apply to modifications to existing circuits in
    existing dwellings.

    Substantiation: An electrician is call to a small room renovation. The
    homeowner has a carpenter remove a short section of wall. They find there is a
    wire running through it. The electrician simply has to install a plug on either
    side of the opening and run a new wire between the two. Most electricians
    could leave the truck running and do this job.
    But there is a problem.
    The electrician finds that it is a multiwire branch circuit. He would have to
    rewire them in order to install an arc-fault circuit breaker. He also finds that the
    panel is a “Push-Matic” (or any other brand no longer made) panel that is flush
    mounted in a finish room. Now he has to replace the panel, or install a new
    panel, plus rewire the two circuits, just to be able to install arc-fault circuit
    breakers.

    What is really going to happen is the electrician is not going to pull a
    permit or get an inspection and he is going to just install the two plugs. Or the
    carpenter is going to do it himself because he never carried the $800 this job
    just turned into.
    The added wording would eliminate this problem by allowing simple
    modifications to be done without requiring the AFCI circuit breakers.

    Panel Meeting Action: Reject
    Panel Statement: The decision on applying the new construction AFCI
    requirements to a circuit modification is that of the authority having
    jurisdiction.


    Number Eligible to Vote: 12
    Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11 Abstain: 1

    Explanation of Abstention:

    ORLOWSKI, S.: Please see NAHB’s Comment on Proposal 2-152.

    "America will never be destroyed from the outside.
    If we falter and lose our freedoms,
    it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

    Abraham Lincoln

  3. #3
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    Thanks, an afci is $57.00 for a sq d qo

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Durham, NC
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    AMENDMENT 210.12 (Effective January 1, 2009)

    210.12 Are-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. (AFCI)
    (B) Dwelling Units: All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20- ampere branch circuits supplying outlets installed in dwelling unit family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.
    Note: This requirement for AFCI protection shall become effective January 1, 2009. It shall be permitted to meet the 2005 NC Electrical Code Article 210.12 for bedrooms until that date

    Based on North Carolina Code NC BEEC

    Depend on the County or City Inspection they might have waivered your particular install, your mileage might vary.
    If your even thirsty, your two quarts low.

  5. #5
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    In Durham ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Memphis, TN
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    M.D.,

    "" The decision on applying the new construction AFCI
    requirements to a circuit modification is that of the authority having jurisdiction. ""

    I have seen the AJH waive the AFCI requirement
    because there was no "New / Moved Wall" involved.

    But he did require 120V Smoke Detectors per code, to replace the Battery ones that existed.

    He did suggest, but did not require, that all K&T be 'upgraded', which suggestion I took to the HO and then to the bank. In leaving, after posting the Green Tag, he asked if there was any 'old wiring left', and grinned at my 'No" answer. He invited me to come back to his little town.

    Just have to try to get along.
    The AHJ represents the other side of the same street.
    Glene77is, Memphis, TN. .....Electricity.is.Shocking.....·×º°”˜`” °º×_

  7. #7
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    Feb 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by glene77is View Post
    I have seen the AJH waive the AFCI requirement
    because there was no "New / Moved Wall" involved.
    The EC had better get that in writing and even than I think the EC would be in a tough spot if something happened.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Glen, I would be surprised if the "He" is the AHJ ,in any case I'm not so sure "He" can just walk around granting waivers...and creating requirements.
    "America will never be destroyed from the outside.
    If we falter and lose our freedoms,
    it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

    Abraham Lincoln

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Durham, NC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Parrish View Post
    In Durham ?
    I really already knew the answer and should have not even said the last statement in my own thread.

    City/County Inspections Department -Durham, NC
    If your even thirsty, your two quarts low.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Westchester County, New York
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwire View Post
    The EC had better get that in writing and even than I think the EC would be in a tough spot if something happened.


    Getting written special permission is not a 'get out of jail' card.
    In order for the AHJ to provide the written special permission, there has to be a good reason, such as the alternate method is suitable for the installation in regards to safety.
    Instructor, Industry Advocate

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