Inspectors that demanded that ground lug be directly connected to ground rod

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teej

Member
We make an electrical enclosure that is sold all over the U.S. I have had a couple customers tell me that two different inspectors in two different states asked them to connect a ground rod directly to our factory installed equipment ground lug. By directly connecting the ground rod, I mean that you screw the lug set screw down on the ground rod. According to these customers, the inspectors would not allow a bonding wire between any lug and the ground rod. When they determined that wasn't possible with our lug, the inspectors told them to install a field lug bonded onto the enclosure and then directly connect a ground rod to the field lug. Why would anyone disallow a bonding wire, especially one that is short? Thanks.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Is this connection being required for grounding the enclosure? ie. in order to clear a fault. If so, ground rods are not intended, and probably won't carry enough current, to clear a short circuit to ground.
 

SEO

Senior Member
Location
Michigan
I have not seen that before but I would have the inspectors explain the violation and put it in writing. Was a code section referenced?
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
dare I ask a little more detail on what type product this is. On first read it makes no sense, but I'm trying to thing of any product other than lightning protection that would connect to the rod.
I can't exactly see a meter socket or CT can mounted i such a manner.
 

Cavie

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
The only product that comes to mind is a traffic control cabinet. It sits on an open bottom base and is the only thing I know that is close enough to the ground to install ground rod to the lug as you suggest but as stated you wold not have enough rod in the ground unless you were using two 10' copper rods coupled together as we do.
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I'm guessing that these are RV power pedestals.

There is no Code reference available for this requirement. The inspectors in the two different states should be contacted and asked to provide, in writing, the basis for the "violation".

I can't imagine it, personally, but there might be local ordinance in play.
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
teej,

I hate to say it but this thread is kind of useless without a photo of the product. We're all just guessing at what it is you're trying to describe. Do you have a photo or a link that we can view?
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
We make an electrical enclosure that is sold all over the U.S. I have had a couple customers tell me that two different inspectors in two different states asked them to connect a ground rod directly to our factory installed equipment ground lug. By directly connecting the ground rod, I mean that you screw the lug set screw down on the ground rod. According to these customers, the inspectors would not allow a bonding wire between any lug and the ground rod. When they determined that wasn't possible with our lug, the inspectors told them to install a field lug bonded onto the enclosure and then directly connect a ground rod to the field lug. Why would anyone disallow a bonding wire, especially one that is short? Thanks.

Perhaps this is something done commonly in that area and the inspectors just think it is a requirement. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a good reason to do this an any case.
 

teej

Member
Enclosure is open ended

Enclosure is open ended

Thanks for the replies guys. I am sorry I forgot to explain that it is a meter pedestal that is open on the bottom (a raceway) that gets buried a few feet in the ground. So theoretically what these inspectors asked for was the rod to come up inside the raceway and get directly connected to the ground lug. I thought it seemed crazy. I suppose the only way you could do it is to bury the rod and slide the enclosure over it and coerce the lug over the rod. I can't believe that you would get a good connection even if you could get it through the lug. Rods are not exactly as ductile as wire. The inspector obviously never had to do one himself! Thanks for the feedback, I always want to check out any feedback I get from our customers with experienced electricians like yourselves.
 

jcole

Senior Member
This might be one of the craziest things I have ever heard of being required by an inspector. And I work in the woods of kentucky where the inspectors are hired because there cousin larry knew the mayor who was married to larrys cousin/sister.

TEEJ, are you sure someone is not messing with you?
 

mivey

Senior Member
This might be one of the craziest things I have ever heard of being required by an inspector. And I work in the woods of kentucky where the inspectors are hired because there cousin larry knew the mayor who was married to larrys cousin/sister.

TEEJ, are you sure someone is not messing with you?
I think you meant to say:
Because their cousin Larry knew their cousin the mayor who was married to Larry's cousin & sister.
 

teej

Member
He did say that his name was Larry and his brother was Darell and he had another brother Darell. Maybe they were messing with me, but when I hear something from two different people in two different states with two different adamant inspectors, it gets me thinking even if I think they are crazy.
 

boatfull

Member
We make an electrical enclosure that is sold all over the U.S. I have had a couple customers tell me that two different inspectors in two different states asked them to connect a ground rod directly to our factory installed equipment ground lug. By directly connecting the ground rod, I mean that you screw the lug set screw down on the ground rod. According to these customers, the inspectors would not allow a bonding wire between any lug and the ground rod. When they determined that wasn't possible with our lug, the inspectors told them to install a field lug bonded onto the enclosure and then directly connect a ground rod to the field lug. Why would anyone disallow a bonding wire, especially one that is short? Thanks.

you said that you make the enclosure. is there a ul label affixed to your equipment? maybe thats why the inspector wants it done that way.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Grounding electrodes are required for separate structures served by more a feeder, typically. But if this is for an RV Park, 551.75 Grounding, refers to Art 250.
I believe the inspector may be correct, if they are viewing this as a "structure".
I've never done an RV power system, any comments?
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
. . . I believe the inspector may be correct, if they are viewing this as a "structure".
Tom,

I don't think there's a question about whether the ground rod should be present. The OP starts off with a ground rod present.

Rather, the OP is reporting incidents of two different AHJs requiring the ground rod, itself, to be inserted into, and tightened down in, the ground bar lug of the pedestal.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I am sorry I forgot to explain that it is a meter pedestal that is open on the bottom (a raceway) that gets buried a few feet in the ground. So theoretically what these inspectors asked for was the rod to come up inside the raceway and get directly connected to the ground lug. I thought it seemed crazy. I suppose the only way you could do it is to bury the rod and slide the enclosure over it and coerce the lug over the rod. I can't believe that you would get a good connection even if you could get it through the lug. Rods are not exactly as ductile as wire. The inspector obviously never had to do one himself! Thanks for the feedback, I always want to check out any feedback I get from our customers with experienced electricians like yourselves.


Just when we thought we have heard it all.
It is refreshing to know there will always be more wonders to follow in the future. ;)
 

hurk27

Senior Member
He did say that his name was Larry and his brother was Darell and he had another brother Darell. Maybe they were messing with me, but when I hear something from two different people in two different states with two different adamant inspectors, it gets me thinking even if I think they are crazy.

Please don't tell me one of these inspectors is up here in northern Indiana:roll:

as I would be going after him with both barrels a blazing.

Have you tried to contact the head state AHJ of those states, many states like here in Indiana have a state wide code and a state AHJ who can over ride any local mis-interpretation of the code.

If we knew which states we could help you with maybe who to contact.?:D
 
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