Question about this contract

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SPARKS40

Member
Location
Northern Il
I had this happen to me one time......guy asked me to e-mail him the contract, then tried to add on to it, similar to what's happening here. This was after the service upgrade was done, which was all i contracted for, and he tried to tell me i was going to be responsible for all his inside work too.......I was out the following day to collect MY panel, MY wire, and MY meter socket, as he had defaulted on the "remainder due upon completion" clause in the fine print which HE had overlooked. I'm always ready for S.O.B.'s like this.....
 

SPARKS40

Member
Location
Northern Il
I had this happen to me one time......guy asked me to e-mail him the contract, then tried to add on to it, similar to what's happening here. This was after the service upgrade was done, which was all i contracted for, and he tried to tell me i was going to be responsible for all his inside work too.......I was out the following day to collect MY panel, MY wire, and MY meter socket, as he had defaulted on the "remainder due upon completion" clause in the fine print which HE had overlooked. I'm always ready for S.O.B.'s like this.....



I forgot to add.....:grin::grin::grin::grin::grin::grin:......BTW, don't EVER allow someone to "modify" YOUR contract.......that's just sloppy.......sorry for saying so......
 

jxofaltrds

Inspector Mike®
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI, PI, RBO
RUN do not walk to your attorney's office.
The owner knew what he was doing when he added that clause in your contract.

Bob Kraemer

May I pick on you? Be careful when saying that you are licensed in the State of Ohio.
Why do I say this? Read: http://www.yourhomesok.com/oclib.htm

To be on the safe side always list your lic. # when stating that you are an Electrical Contractor in The State of Ohio.

When I list mine some people think that I am trying to prove something. NO, just being safe.

OH. Lic. #26286
 

bradleyelectric

Senior Member
Location
forest hill, md
Bob Kraemer

May I pick on you? Be careful when saying that you are licensed in the State of Ohio.
Why do I say this? Read: http://www.yourhomesok.com/oclib.htm

To be on the safe side always list your lic. # when stating that you are an Electrical Contractor in The State of Ohio.

When I list mine some people think that I am trying to prove something. NO, just being safe.

OH. Lic. #26286

So your saying you are marketing your services to me.
 

AV ELECTRIC

Senior Member
No work should have been started until you were done with your change out and have it pass inspection and have poco energize. After that the owner can do whatever he wants. Next time let the owner know that. I believe the owner is not trying to scam you. Hes just trying to flip or rent this house out quickly. What defines a whole house remodel. i would say moving walls new plumming electrical and hvac. Patching walls cabinates new fixtures may not be clasified as a remodle ime not sure in your area. I would have the owner contact the city and let them know what exactly he is doing maybe he doesnt need a permit if he does give him a bid to rewire the whole house he is still responsible to pay you for the panel. The inspector should be able to inspect your work.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Bob Kraemer

May I pick on you? Be careful when saying that you are licensed in the State of Ohio.
Why do I say this? Read: http://www.yourhomesok.com/oclib.htm

To be on the safe side always list your lic. # when stating that you are an Electrical Contractor in The State of Ohio.

When I list mine some people think that I am trying to prove something. NO, just being safe.

OH. Lic. #26286


I don't think Bob is 'conducting business' here.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Bob Kraemer

May I pick on you? Be careful when saying that you are licensed in the State of Ohio.
Why do I say this? Read: http://www.yourhomesok.com/oclib.htm

To be on the safe side always list your lic. # when stating that you are an Electrical Contractor in The State of Ohio.

When I list mine some people think that I am trying to prove something. NO, just being safe.

OH. Lic. #26286


You really think Bob's declaration on this forum qualifies as "advertising"?


Please note that advertisements.... are inappropriate on this forum.
...from: Read Before Posting: Forum Rules / Treatment of New Members

The mods would have to ban a good majority of us for simply stated we are licensed EC's in our postings.




Any further commentary on this matter should really be included in a new thread so as not to deviate from the OP's messy situation.

Thank you*



*This message brought to by a licensed electrical contractor based in NJ.

 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
No work should have been started until you were done with your change out and have it pass inspection and have poco energize. After that the owner can do whatever he wants. Next time let the owner know that.

How can an EC hold a person's home hostage?
No painting...landscaping.....repour the basement/garage floor ~ all because the EC is working ???

That's a big ol' can of worms.


Good luck finding any warm body to agree to that condition.



I believe the owner is not trying to scam you. Hes just trying to flip or rent this house out quickly. What defines a whole house remodel. i would say moving walls new plumming electrical and hvac. Patching walls cabinates new fixtures may not be clasified as a remodle ime not sure in your area.

I think you may very well be unanimous in your opinion.

To make the rest of the story short- the inspector stopped all those contractors and said this was a home REMODEL and all work needed permits.

The inspectors SHUT DOWN this "non-remodel" job.



I would have the owner contact the city and let them know what exactly he is doing maybe he doesnt need a permit if he does give him a bid to rewire the whole house he is still responsible to pay you for the panel. The inspector should be able to inspect your work.

The owner is not going to contact anyone but his lawyer.
He re-worded the contract for HIS benefit.

Now that the jig is up and the city is wise to his disregard for the rules, the game just got serious.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
First of all no " Reasonable person would expect that you do work outside the scope of your contract.
Second the owner knew that he was going to do a remodel and outright lied to you when you asked him .
The owner has in essence purpetrated Fraud on you. This was nothing about being shrewed.
Tell this guy either he pays you for the work done or you will lein the place and sue him for breech and Fraud.

my opinion as a contractor not a Lawyer.
I hear they allow sidearms in Arizona!:cool:
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
"If any of the work done by EC is found by Utility and City inspectors not to pass inspection it shall be the responsibility of the EC for parts and labor to effect repairs in a timely manner. This shall also include any repair or replacement, not in this work order, which is found not to meet the inspector's code requirements."


That is so vague - I doubt it's even enforceable as written.

If by some bizarre means it is deemed "valid"....you still have out....while you may bear "the responsibility ... for parts and labor to effect repairs in a timely manner..." , what prevents you from changing $65,000 for the permit, filing, inspection and administrative fees :D


Speaking of what is "valid" and what is not, does your contract have language to the effect of:
If any part of this contract is deemed void, only that portion of the contract shall be voided.



I immediately called the homeowner with the bad news and he simply told me that the clause that I would perform the replacement of whatever inspector needs sticks!


If you haven't replied to him yet....please inform that you have taken the matter to your legal department ~ that being us :)

At the very least, it will let him know you are not a push over.
 

iMuse97

Senior Member
Location
Chicagoland
No work should have been started until you were done with your change out and have it pass inspection and have poco energize. After that the owner can do whatever he wants. Next time let the owner know that. I believe the owner is not trying to scam you. Hes just trying to flip or rent this house out quickly. What defines a whole house remodel. i would say moving walls new plumming electrical and hvac. Patching walls cabinates new fixtures may not be clasified as a remodle ime not sure in your area. I would have the owner contact the city and let them know what exactly he is doing maybe he doesnt need a permit if he does give him a bid to rewire the whole house he is still responsible to pay you for the panel. The inspector should be able to inspect your work.

AV, you've supposed that the owner is not necessarily trying to mess with the OP. However, we have some data from what he said to AZVoltage, and what he modified in the contract, and these actions and comments imply that his motives may be less than honorable.

Therefore, at this point AZ should be very wary, and proceed with legal advice and caution, remembering that often "possession is 9/10ths of ownership," and he may need to go and collect his belongings, and recscind his permit also, if that is possible.
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I had this happen to me one time......guy asked me to e-mail him the contract, then tried to add on to it, similar to what's happening here.
We send our proposals as PDF's, and also keep a JPG image of the proposal, just in case.
 

AV ELECTRIC

Senior Member
AV, you've supposed that the owner is not necessarily trying to mess with the OP. However, we have some data from what he said to AZVoltage, and what he modified in the contract, and these actions and comments imply that his motives may be less than honorable.

Therefore, at this point AZ should be very wary, and proceed with legal advice and caution, remembering that often "possession is 9/10ths of ownership," and he may need to go and collect his belongings, and recscind his permit also, if that is possible.

Yes you do have a point but its all speculation. He needs to talk to customer The contract reads he is only responsible for the change out . It appears to me that the customer wanted to be covered if the panel did not pass inspection and wanted that in the contract It does not say anything up and above that.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
We send our proposals as PDF's, and also keep a JPG image of the proposal, just in case.

The customer always signs first.....the signature page is all that really matters as the original is ALWAYS in my possession and the customers receive a copy.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
Yes you do have a point but its all speculation. He needs to talk to customer The contract reads he is only responsible for the change out . It appears to me that the customer wanted to be covered if the panel did not pass inspection and wanted that in the contract It does not say anything up and above that.


You really need to re-read what the OP has posted:

I immediately called the homeowner with the bad news and he simply told me that the clause that I would perform the replacement of whatever inspector needs sticks!

"whatever" leads you to believe it is limited to ONLY the service itself with no interior wiring affected?
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The customer always signs first.....the signature page is all that really matters as the original is ALWAYS in my possession and the customers receive a copy.
We always deal with paper contracts for signing. We both sign both copies. Like you, our original never leaves our control.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
This was an out right con game played by this HO, in no way can I see this as anything other then that, and it was the whole reason the HO changed the original contract in the first place, probably hoping that the EC would not catch it.
A contract is written to protect the EC, from the non payment of the person who is responsible for paying the bill, if you have the original contract he e-mailed the HO, I would just play dumb, and say hey he change it after the fact, but I don't even think it matters, as any court of law should sway enough your way on the preponderance of evidence that you would win anyways, as was said, this is just outright fraud.

I would say you entered into a good faith contract to do just what you said, and this should stand up in a court.

Your time and money that has been invested in the job already plus the court cost and attorney fees, is yours, if for nothing else, I would slap this guy in court, just to show he can't be playing games like this.

If someone was to try something like this with me, I would ask him if he thought I was drunk, because if he didn't I would say he was, thinking of trying a trick like this.

I will go after a con in a heart beat, if for no other reason, but to maybe keep him from doing things like this to others.

Any court should see this clear cut, of someone who is trying to take a free ride on someone Else's dime.

Anyone who can't see this has to be blind.

and don't forget to add in a fair interest rate compounded monthly to the bill that goes over the expected 30 days net.

Get a lawyer and get one fast, don't wait. be the first to act. I would simply tell this HO that there is no way I'm am going to rewire your house for free. or even at a lower rate then I would normally charge, send him a certified letter, along with the bill and the original contract, and let him know you expect payment for the work completed. but do this after talking to an attorney. also I don't know about there, but around here, it is better to get an attorney from somewhere away from the area. he might even be able to force the inspector to sign off on the work your did, and land the extra work on the HO, this would certainly make the contract fulfilled.

But remember, our suggestions are only opinions of what we would or would not do, and are by no means, legally usable in a court of law.

What ever choice you make let this be a learning lesson, to never let the receiver of a contract to ever change a contract with out it voiding the contract, and especially one that has potential of costing you more time and materials for the same price. if they want it changed then say ok I'll rebid it, after you do the research of what it might cost you for the "what if" and then put it in the contract.

Can ya tell I can't stand a con?:mad:
 
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