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Thread: old work boxes for wall sconces

  1. #1
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    old work boxes for wall sconces

    There is a job to mount some wall sconces in a place of assembly, so romex is not allowed. How could we mount this boxes (old work, wall can not be broken , they were just painted) for this wall sconces. Are madison clips enough support for the the metal boxes to hold these luminaries?
    Miguel

    All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by mtnelectrical View Post
    There is a job to mount some wall sconces in a place of assembly, so romex is not allowed. How could we mount this boxes (old work, wall can not be broken , they were just painted) for this wall sconces. Are madison clips enough support for the the metal boxes to hold these luminaries?
    Madison clips are switch supports, not fixture supports. Use a smartbox and cut it in beside a stud

  3. #3
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    Smart boxes are a great idea if you're using RX cable. In this case the installation is in a place of assembly and he'll have to use MC and a metal box. I've seen the Arlington model # FBS1423 which is a 4" round box that screws to a stud or ceiling rafter. Stamped inside the box it indicates that the box can support up to 70 lbs. You'll just have to make sure that the canopy will cover the box. If you're installing a European made fixture it may not.

    http://www.aifittings.com/whnew136.htm

  4. #4
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    I would not have a problem using madison bars to mount the average wall sconce.
    There are two kinds of people - those smart enough to know they don’t know, and those dumb enough to insist they do.-----Margery Eagan

    Open shop since 1988

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
    Madison clips are switch supports, not fixture supports. Use a smartbox and cut it in beside a stud
    IMO they are 'box supports' and are not limited to switches.

    That said to use a standard old work to support a wall fixture requires that the fixture does not weigh more than 6 pounds. If the wall fixture weighs over 6 pounds you will have to use a box with 8-32 mounting screws .... in other words a round box. 314.27(A)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by iwire View Post
    IMO they are 'box supports' and are not limited to switches.

    That said to use a standard old work to support a wall fixture requires that the fixture does not weigh more than 6 pounds. If the wall fixture weighs over 6 pounds you will have to use a box with 8-32 mounting screws .... in other words a round box. 314.27(A)


    Found this online, FWIT


    Madison clips
    Thin metal clips which are used in older work places to attach switches and receptacles.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by iwire View Post
    IMO they are 'box supports' and are not limited to switches.

    That said to use a standard old work to support a wall fixture requires that the fixture does not weigh more than 6 pounds. If the wall fixture weighs over 6 pounds you will have to use a box with 8-32 mounting screws .... in other words a round box. 314.27(A)
    I agree the 6#'s is the deciding factor when mounting lighting fixture on a vertical surface with an old work box.
    Rob

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    All responses based on the 2011 NEC unless otherwise noted

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
    Found this online, FWIT
    Madison clips
    Thin metal clips which are used in older work places to attach switches and receptacles.
    There is probably more pressure on a receptacle box then there would be on the light fixture when you consider that someone is plugging in and out of the recep.

    I vote for finding a study unless the fixture is lightweight.

    If you need to be in a certain location that is not next to a stud then perhaps a fan rated bar box would work. I never installed one in a stud wall but it seems like it would work.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcclary's electrical View Post
    Found this online, FWIT


    Madison clips
    Thin metal clips which are used in older work places to attach switches and receptacles.

    UL lists them as "Outlet and Flush Device Supports" (QCRV)

    Now if we want to talk abut something lets talk about using drywall as a structural element. :grin:

    I think we will find that the drywall manufacturers prohibit using drywall to support equipment.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by iwire View Post
    UL lists them as "Outlet and Flush Device Supports" (QCRV)

    Now if we want to talk abut something lets talk about using drywall as a structural element. :grin:

    I think we will find that the drywall manufacturers prohibit using drywall to support equipment.

    Good point.

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