A funny and sad story

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goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Went to look at this service upgrade this week :



This is currently a 60 amp, 1-120/240V service located just inside the garage door. There are a total of 8 fuses (4 in the main section, one directly above, 2 above that and 2 on the bottom right). The elderly woman who lives there told me since she's lived there she's never blown a fuse. After a closer inspection none of the fuses were less than 30 amps. No wonder (I'm sure her late husband had a lot to do with that). The pull-chain light fixture at the top left has a lamp cord and plug attached to it. That turns on another key-less fixture on the back side of the garage. The 4" square box at the bottom right has 1 AC feeding and 5 AC's leaving to supply branch circuits along with a duplex receptacle installed. The black wire near the bottom of the panel is an SO cord and has a plug on the end of it. That's for the dishwasher directly on the opposite side of the wall. The current service is run thru a 1" gal conduit painted the color of the house.

The woman's questions were as follows :
  1. Can the meter enclosure remain inside the garage ?
  2. What color will the wire or conduit be on the outside of the house ?
  3. Can the wire be painted ?
  4. If I choose PVC Can that be be painted ?
  5. Can I leave the pull-chain light where it is ?
  6. Can I leave the back garage light plugged in ?

All important questions to her I'm sure but would not have been first on my list.:happyno:

BTW, her insurance co. told her to upgrade the service by the end of June or they will drop her. Gave her a price. Haven't heard back from her yet. I'm betting I'll hear from her on the 29th. :slaphead: Should I hold the date ? :roll:
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I see a fair number of these jobs done almost pro-gratis by the contractor,
On some that are obviously hardship I pay the inspection fee myself.
At my age, it's difficult to say 'elderly' but there are those out there living on incomes and memories of past wages who can not fathom the actual costs of upgrading that service
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
BTW, her insurance co. told her to upgrade the service by the end of June or they will drop her. Gave her a price. Haven't heard back from her yet. I'm betting I'll hear from her on the 29th. :slaphead: Should I hold the date ? :roll:

My bet she is shopping and you won't hear back.

I had a potential customer call me about changing 2 cans into hanging lights. He had the conversion kits and fixtures. He lives in a gated community and you have to stop and wait to get in. Anyway I told him service call is $125 and that I thought it would take 1.5 hours as those kits can be a PITA. He said I'll get back to you... When I hear that I now tell them--"No you wont." I don't need that cheap crap especially from a wealthy person
 

Steve Sink

Member
Location
NC
My response to question number one would be "absolutely not!" As someone who works for a utility, I cannot tell you how many times I have found this and how frustrating it is to have to set up appointments to get into these garages. Also, it is dangerous for these things to be in a place that is not readily accessible because on of the first things the fire department typically does when responding to a house fire is to pull the meter before they will use any water. If they cannot find it because it is in the garage, they may be forced by protocol to wait for a crew to come and cut it at the pole. All the while, the house is burning to the ground.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I see a fair number of these jobs done almost pro-gratis by the contractor,
On some that are obviously hardship I pay the inspection fee myself.
At my age, it's difficult to say 'elderly' but there are those out there living on incomes and memories of past wages who can not fathom the actual costs of upgrading that service
I hear you Augie. I try to be fair with my prices, especially for the elderly who are on fixed incomes. But I'm not Bill Gates - I'm still out there trying to earn a living.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
My response to question number one would be "absolutely not!" As someone who works for a utility, I cannot tell you how many times I have found this and how frustrating it is to have to set up appointments to get into these garages. Also, it is dangerous for these things to be in a place that is not readily accessible because on of the first things the fire department typically does when responding to a house fire is to pull the meter before they will use any water. If they cannot find it because it is in the garage, they may be forced by protocol to wait for a crew to come and cut it at the pole. All the while, the house is burning to the ground.
I'm with you on this and so are all the POCO's in my area. However, she doesn't believe me so I told her to call and ask the POCO herself. I already know the response but she has to hear it from the horses mouth.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I'm with you on this and so are all the POCO's in my area. However, she doesn't believe me so I told her to call and ask the POCO herself. I already know the response but she has to hear it from the horses mouth.
That is where you tell them they are welcome to let someone else do the project. Should they find some handyman or whoever that will do what they want- wait until inspector rejects some of it or POCO doesn't approve of something - then they realize you knew what you were talking about (maybe).

You may also want to tell them after you upgrade and put 15 and 20 amp breakers on what was protected by 30 amp fuses (because you have to) they possibly will have some trip events they never had before and that must be resolved by running more circuits to certain areas. They won't like this news either if already complaining about the other things.
 

Steve Sink

Member
Location
NC
She may not want to hear it from the power company because they may make her do something right away, or else they will turn her power off. I have had to do this before. I do not like doing it, but sometimes it has to be done.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
That is where you tell them they are welcome to let someone else do the project. Should they find some handyman or whoever that will do what they want- wait until inspector rejects some of it or POCO doesn't approve of something - then they realize you knew what you were talking about (maybe).

You may also want to tell them after you upgrade and put 15 and 20 amp breakers on what was protected by 30 amp fuses (because you have to) they possibly will have some trip events they never had before and that must be resolved by running more circuits to certain areas. They won't like this news either if already complaining about the other things.
Agreed. That's where we are right now. Still haven't heard back.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
She may not want to hear it from the power company because they may make her do something right away, or else they will turn her power off. I have had to do this before. I do not like doing it, but sometimes it has to be done.
Right now, if she doesn't do anything all that will happen is her insurance co. will drop her. As far as the POCO goes - she's grandfathered in and I don't think they'll force her to change. On the other hand, if she does make the change the meter will have to go outside.
 

electricalist

Senior Member
Location
dallas tx
I'd try to get an answer as to why is so important to her to keep the meter inside. Then I'd call a friend at the poco and see about putting a disconnect outside before the meter that the poco can lock and access.
The other things I think I could deal with it if I see that she can't afford it for the price of the material and my time I'd try to make it right.
Mr.Dennis I have done a lot of work for customers like you....They feel like we owe them all the extras for free because we might have a 8% profit margin.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I'd try to get an answer as to why is so important to her to keep the meter inside. Then I'd call a friend at the poco and see about putting a disconnect outside before the meter that the poco can lock and access.
The other things I think I could deal with it if I see that she can't afford it for the price of the material and my time I'd try to make it right.
Mr.Dennis I have done a lot of work for customers like you....They feel like we owe them all the extras for free because we might have a 8% profit margin.
She's more concerned with appearance and whether the SE cable or PVC will match the color of her house rather than practicality. All her neighbors have had their services upgraded and she's held out all these years. She just wants it her way and won't bend. Unfortunately for her the POCO is equally unbending.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
She's more concerned with appearance and whether the SE cable or PVC will match the color of her house rather than practicality. All her neighbors have had their services upgraded and she's held out all these years. She just wants it her way and won't bend. Unfortunately for her the POCO is equally unbending.

She can always have underground service installed and will minimize what gets exposed on the house - but usually will be higher cost.

I have nothing exposed on my house, but meter is on a pole and conductors enter basement below grade.
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
She can always have underground service installed and will minimize what gets exposed on the house - but usually will be higher cost.
She doesn't want to upgrade the service to begin with. Her insurance co. is threatening to drop her

I have nothing exposed on my house, but meter is on a pole and conductors enter basement below grade.
Yes, but you're in NEBRASKA:cool:
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
She doesn't want to upgrade the service to begin with. Her insurance co. is threatening to drop her

Yes, but you're in NEBRASKA:cool:

I guess she can have her wish - let the insurance go. She can try another insurance carrier, but they may not like it either or at least will want higher premium if she doesn't fix some things.

We are "The Good Life" State. I think, it used to say that on all the signs at the borders anyway.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
She doesn't want to upgrade the service to begin with. Her insurance co. is threatening to drop her.

I guess she can have her wish - let the insurance go. She can try another insurance carrier, but they may not like it either or at least will want higher premium if she doesn't fix some things.


Another insurance carrier may not have any problems with the service at all. I'm surprised when I see some of the homes that are insured.
 

Jon456

Senior Member
Location
Colorado
She's more concerned with appearance and whether the SE cable or PVC will match the color of her house rather than practicality.
If the issue is esthetics, why not hide the service panel and meter inside a nice cabinet on the outside wall that's designed to match the rest of the siding?
 

goldstar

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
If the issue is esthetics, why not hide the service panel and meter inside a nice cabinet on the outside wall that's designed to match the rest of the siding?
That would be a great idea as long as I didn't have to build it. Carpentry is not my best suit. Also, the service is right up against the driveway and I think it would be a hazard to locate an enclosure there. As it is I would have to locate the meter up higher than usual. She's in her 80's so I don't think she'll come home drunk one night and smash into the meter.:p But installing an enclosure would make the situation more difficult.
 

augie47

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
That would be a great idea as long as I didn't have to build it. Carpentry is not my best suit. Also, the service is right up against the driveway and I think it would be a hazard to locate an enclosure there. As it is I would have to locate the meter up higher than usual. She's in her 80's so I don't think she'll come home drunk one night and smash into the meter.:p But installing an enclosure would make the situation more difficult.
Can't help but think which would be more risky.. crossing the street at night in front of a DUI or an 80 year old..... heck it's risky at 70+ year old like myself. :D
 
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