Separate or Attached building?

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I'm wiring one half of a duplex. New single service to a 2 meter/2 disconnect combo can mounted on existing half.
Discos are 200A each. New half is being built against existing, new slab poured and connected with rebar to existing slab. Uffer ground in new slab, 4/0 feeders (4 wires) run in PVC.
1. Is this considered a Separate building?
2. Can I reduce the Grounding conductor size?
 

augie47

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Staff member
Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
Unless the new section is separated by a fire wall (here, a 4 hr rated wall is required) you still have one structure The equipment grounding conductor can be reduced per 250.122. The grounded conductor should be able to be reduced, but 220.61 actually makes that determination
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
The fire wall as mentioned is major factor. I did do 40 town house 20 x 2 that even had seperate services. I did not like this setup but was approved. If yours is normal duplex i would say it is one building. And being it shares a service i think it would be hard not to call it one building.
 

augie47

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Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I understand that Townhouses are a separate "critter" and we have to address them differently than a duplex (service can't be on other owners property), but it is strange how the two comparable items are handled differently.
 

raider1

Senior Member
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Location
Logan, Utah
No, the grounding conductor from the service/disco.

The grounding conductor from the service/disco to what other point?

The equipment grounding conductor is sized in accordance with 250.122 based on the upstream overcurrent device.

The grounding electrode conductor from the service disconnecting means to the grounding electrode is sized in accordance with 250.66 based on the service entrance conductors.

Chris
 

cowboyjwc

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Location
Simi Valley, CA
You may have to bond the cold water seperatly. My guess is that they have seperate water meters. Same with the gas if you're required to bond the gas there.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I understand that Townhouses are a separate "critter" and we have to address them differently than a duplex (service can't be on other owners property), but it is strange how the two comparable items are handled differently.

When i first seen the plans i was 911 to my boss. I do not like this set up and from what was constructed i hope fire department has it under control in 20 minutes. Best fire wall going will jump over at the roof. Nothing electrically shared not even grd rods.A town house to me is just a fancy term for duplex. Not sure about other states but here we cant even run feeders under the others unit. I don't write the rules just try to follow them.
 

augie47

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Location
Tennessee
Occupation
State Electrical Inspector (Retired)
I agree. It is a bit of hypocrisy to say you can't have separate services on the duplex, but must on the townhouse, but, as you point out, there is no practical way to feed the attached townhouse without passing thru or on the property of the 1st townhouse. I guess you could require a duplex meter socket on the dividing line.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I agree. It is a bit of hypocrisy to say you can't have separate services on the duplex, but must on the townhouse, but, as you point out, there is no practical way to feed the attached townhouse without passing thru or on the property of the 1st townhouse. I guess you could require a duplex meter socket on the dividing line.

Did do another set of town houses $500,000 was starting price. They made me put service on outside of one unit in one spot with disconects but had to route the feeders around the outside of all but the unit that we mounted them to. Now that while was a pain at least made some since. They are way too over concerned that a feeder might go bad under another unit. Never in my life did i have a 200 amp service under the slab go bad. I guess if it did it could melt the PVC.
 
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