A good look at a potential problem

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James L

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Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
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Electrician
I started wiring a bathroom today, that had been gutted down to the studs.

I pulled the insulation out of a stud bay and found three staples that had been slapped through a wire at the time the house was built.

It reminded me of a couple of threads where people were trying to run down arc-fault problems where there didn't appear to be anything wrong with the wiring.

What do you think about these staples causing what might be misconstrued as nuisance tripping?
 

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ActionDave

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Durango, CO, 10 h 20 min from the winged horses.
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No, they would not cause nuisance tripping. A problem like that can be tested, isolated, and dealt with. A megger or gfci can sniff something like that out.

Nuisance tripping is when you get called out because the trim carpenter's saw is tripping the afci, or the big screen TV, or the new pack of led lamps the HO put in, or the newest one I just heard about, refrigerator LED.... There is nothing wrong with the wiring and it's UL stuff being plugged in that is tripping them. That is a nuisance!
 

mbrooke

Batteries Included
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United States
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Technician
If something like that damages the insulation on the hot or neutral causing current to flow it will involve the EGC. You do not need immature unproven arc signature analysis to catch that, a simple GFP or GFCI breaker will do the same.

Had the NEC required GFP/GFCI breakers at the branch circuit origin we would have the same level of protection (if not better) at a lower cost without nuisance tripping. The bulk of wiring error's are caught via GFP within the AFCI while the bulk of nuisance tripping comes from an AFCI's inability to differentiate between normal current ripple produced by NRTL listed appliances and supposed "arc faults".


The term "arc fault" is simply a price point.
 

James L

Senior Member
Location
Kansas Cty, Mo, USA
Occupation
Electrician
From the picture I can't tell but that looks like a thermostat wire to me, or some other low voltage wire?
It's a 14-2/g NM


When I saw it, I thought of several threads where people were frustrated by what they perceived as nuicance tripping of arc fault breakers.

This got me thinking....I wonder how many times something like this (if it was a real fault) would be wrongly chalked up to "nuicance"


BTW, I've run into real nuicance tripping, such as the time I was trying to run down a wiring problem, only to find out a night light was tripping an arc fault breaker as it was being plugged in with a hand covering the photocell
 

George Stolz

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Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
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I agree with the others; if it's a problem a DMM can see and that can be tracked down with normal troubleshooting methods, it is not a "nuisance" - it is a fault.
 
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