480 Volt Hot Tap

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roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Large hospitals are a very big part of our business and there are times shut downs are necessary, this task would be one that is not negotiable.
They are always scheduled for late night or wee hours of the morning,

Scheduling would be the key and the hospital would operate under "essential systems" for a short period, no problem and everybody goes home safely.

Roger
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If all that is true that is a problem at least as far as for profit Hospital, they like all businesses are required to comply with OSHA and 70e. One of those requirements would be a written safety policy and that policy will require compliance with the rules.

As you always point out you are out in the sticks so I have no trouble believing it's being ignored.

That is not the case where I am and I doubt it is the case where Randy is.

I understand the rules, well at least that they are there, full understanding would come easier if they were being enforced more then they are.

One has to be sorry about the POCO employee I mentioned, yet will be interesting to see what happens after investigations of the incident are completed. This was a small town municipal POCO, only two maybe three linemen work there, city they work for probably knows little on electrical safety practices and the department (of two or three) probably oversees itself to some degree on safety. I am not familiar with this particular municipal utility but have been around others similarly structured.

In nearly 30 years I have only witnessed once a technician putting on arc flash protection gear to take a voltage measurement, this was the start up technician for a new piece of equipment that was installed and was about a year ago. He was only checking supply voltage to see that it was in an acceptable range before starting equipment, and to verify there was no voltage whenever he needed into electrical enclosures after that.

Not bragging or complaining on that fact - it is what it is.
 

petersonra

Senior Member
Location
Northern illinois
Occupation
engineer
One has to be sorry about the POCO employee I mentioned, yet will be interesting to see what happens after investigations of the incident are completed. This was a small town municipal POCO, only two maybe three linemen work there, city they work for probably knows little on electrical safety practices and the department (of two or three) probably oversees itself to some degree on safety. I am not familiar with this particular municipal utility but have been around others similarly structured.

government employees are generally exempt from OSHA rules.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
government employees are generally exempt from OSHA rules.
We are talking about city/village level of government. Could be true there is no law forcing them to comply, but they usually still have insurance and their insurance can certainly have a say in matters of what will or will not be covered if they don't follow recognized standards, or at least how much coverage will cost in the future if things don't change.

OSHA may not get involved in the case I mentioned. I bet state department of labor does and will use OSHA guidelines as a base for what practices should be in place.
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
No way in HELL, would I do that live. One simple mistake and you could destroy the gear and have a high probability of personal injury or death.

Ditto. You dont even have to make a mistake for something to go very wrong; a fault in the eqpt that you (whoever "you" are) 'discover' could be it.

ER? lol. they are gonna transfer what's left of you to the burn ward. I would love to have the nerves to do this kind of work, but, alas, I dont.

Meh, in 30-50 years, they will have robots capable, and cheap enough, to do this kind of work.
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Ditto. You dont even have to make a mistake for something to go very wrong; a fault in the eqpt that you (whoever "you" are) 'discover' could be it.

ER? lol. they are gonna transfer what's left of you to the burn ward. I would love to have the nerves to do this kind of work, but, alas, I dont.

Meh, in 30-50 years, they will have robots capable, and cheap enough, to do this kind of work.

it's not a question of nerves, it's a question of preparation.

predating NFPA 70E, predating wide implementation of OSHA, which started in '71,
i did high voltage work for almost two years. barehanding up to 30KV AC & DC, most
common voltages were in the 1,200 ~ 3,000 volt range. this is 4 to 6 hours a day,
five days a week, sitting on a chair on a silicone mat, handling test equipment.
available current was about 5 amps, so it wasn't a static charge. never got zapped.

so, i know how, and it's not a big deal to me. i can legally do what i can't legally
direct an employee to do, but honestly, what incentive is there for me to do it? there isn't.
i can make $3k easier other ways.

i put it up here as a courtesy to someone who might want the work. nothing more.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
it's not a question of nerves, it's a question of preparation.

predating NFPA 70E, predating wide implementation of OSHA, which started in '71,
i did high voltage work for almost two years. barehanding up to 30KV AC & DC, most
common voltages were in the 1,200 ~ 3,000 volt range. this is 4 to 6 hours a day,
five days a week, sitting on a chair on a silicone mat, handling test equipment.
available current was about 5 amps, so it wasn't a static charge. never got zapped.

The funny thing is that high voltage stuff is actually "safer" as far as incident energy goes. I'd rather work high voltage with the right PPE than high amperage @ 480 volts any day of the week.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The funny thing is that high voltage stuff is actually "safer" as far as incident energy goes. I'd rather work high voltage with the right PPE than high amperage @ 480 volts any day of the week.
From an arc blast perspective it often is less risk, from electric shock perspective - you don't get as many second chances if something goes wrong.
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
From an arc blast perspective it often is less risk, from electric shock perspective - you don't get as many second chances if something goes wrong.

True, but there is PPE is that will protect you from high voltage. There is no PPE made that will protect you from arc flash if something goes wrong in 3000 amp gear.
 
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