Traffic Signals, NEC or NESC?

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tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
Some years ago I wrote an article for a traffic signal magazine on how the NEC applies to traffic signals, not the NESC. I recently got this email:

"Since the Traffic Signal & Lighting systems are in the public r-o-w, why do you perceive them as being administered by the NEC, and therefore the local electrical inspectors, when the NESC was designed to cover all things in the r-o-w.

Would this also mean, in your view, that utilities would now need to pull Permits from the local EI’s, and that every road project would need to be inspected and approved by these EI’s.

It appears that most if not all of the situations you cite make sense and should be considered by the Traffic Signal mftrs., designers, and installers, but ruled by the NEC, I think not."

For those of you who work on or install traffic signals, are you under the NEC or NESC?
Thanks
 

GoldDigger

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Location
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I would reply, in part, that neither the NEC nor the NESC make the primary distinction based on whether the wiring is in public
ROW but rather whether they are owned, operated, or maintained by a public or private utility or not. In particular lighting on private property but operated by POCO is excluded from the NEC.
The traffic signal installation is typically done by a government entity but it is not done by a *utility*.
Traffic signal wiring is, however, a very specialized field.
Let's see what others have to add. :)
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
I think you need to break the e-mail into its fragments.

...

"Since the Traffic Signal & Lighting systems are in the public r-o-w, why do you perceive them as being administered by the NEC, and therefore the local electrical inspectors, when the NESC was designed to cover all things in the r-o-w.

...

Not all traffic signals are in the public ROW but we can agree that most are.
Was the NESC "desgined to cover all things in the ROW"? No. It does cover many things which are commonly in a ROW. It also covers many other things which are not in a ROW.
It is noteworthy that signals can be owned by a utility, a city, county or state DOT, privately owned, etc.




...

Would this also mean, in your view, that utilities would now need to pull Permits from the local EI’s, and that every road project would need to be inspected and approved by these EI’s.

...

Utilities only have to pull permits for work which is not exempt. Which work is or is not exempt to a given utility varies by jurisdiction and type of utility.
Around here POCO is not going to connect the service until local inspector puts his OK sticker on the meter enclosure. Even though a permit is not required, the contractor under contract with the DOT comes in and pulls a permit. That permit is issued under the NEC and that's what the work is inspected to. Keep in mind the permit is for the service and not for what's connected to the service. Local EI is not climbing up checking wiring connections inside traffic signals or is he inspecting timing, the correct color lens, etc.

...

It appears that most if not all of the situations you cite make sense and should be considered by the Traffic Signal mftrs., designers, and installers, but ruled by the NEC, I think not."

...
Thanks


When a local utility requires a local electrical permit for the service, that service is built and inspected per the NEC. The rest of the system is per whatever standard details the owner of the signal uses which varies by jurisdiction and also varies by ownership of the signal.

For those of you who work on or install traffic signals, are you under the NEC or NESC?
Thanks

Yes no and maybe. See above.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I say take a look at 90.2(B).

Unless the POCO owns, operates, maintains the traffic signal it is not exempt from NEC unless there is local laws that would otherwise exclude it.

I doubt many POCO's are involved with traffic signals once you get past the service disconnect to them, most of those are usually owned and maintained by city or state roads departments. Their initial installation and major maintenance tasks or updates may be done by private contractors though.
 
http://standards.ieee.org/about/nesc/general.html
The purpose of the NESC is the practical safeguarding of persons during the installation, operation, or maintenance of electrical supply and communication lines, equipment, and associated work practices employed by a public or private electric supply, communications, railway, or similar utility in the exercise of its function as a utility.

Other than the rather awkward sentence construction, I think it all ends with the part I italicized. Unless the traffic signals are part of a utility's function, I wouldn't think they're covered.
 

RichB

Senior Member
Location
Tacoma, Wa
Occupation
Electrician/Electrical Inspector
At WSDOT,

All our installations, signals, street lighting etc, is done to our Standards and Specifications/Drawings.

NEC, or as modified by Wash Admin Code, is our minimum requirement.

Per L&I we must maintain, as a minimum, what L&I requires, which we do as our Specs go beyond NEC.

However, as noted above, it is a specialized field and we can not use our work as hours towards a state license.

One thing that is different--from the signal control cabinet out to the display heads--the green wire in the IMSA cable we use is the HOT for the green display not a bond/ground.
 

Smart $

Esteemed Member
Location
Ohio
At WSDOT,

All our installations, signals, street lighting etc, is done to our Standards and Specifications/Drawings.

NEC, or as modified by Wash Admin Code, is our minimum requirement.

Per L&I we must maintain, as a minimum, what L&I requires, which we do as our Specs go beyond NEC.

However, as noted above, it is a specialized field and we can not use our work as hours towards a state license.

One thing that is different--from the signal control cabinet out to the display heads--the green wire in the IMSA cable we use is the HOT for the green display not a bond/ground.
L&I...???

How can you say you go beyond the NEC/WAC if you use green as a circuit conductor? What "code" exempts these IMSA cable installations?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
L&I...???

How can you say you go beyond the NEC/WAC if you use green as a circuit conductor? What "code" exempts these IMSA cable installations?
250.119, Exception #3 allows for that use of a conductor with green insulation. (new for the 2014 code, I believe the OP for this thread submitted the proposal for this change)
 

cowboyjwc

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Simi Valley, CA
Here we don't regulate traffic signals or street lights, but a permit is required for the meter pedestal that controls them and a release to the utilities from Building and Safety.
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
At WSDOT,

One thing that is different--from the signal control cabinet out to the display heads--the green wire in the IMSA cable we use is the HOT for the green display not a bond/ground.

I had a code proposal for the 2008 NEC to allow the use of IMSA 19-1 cable (red wire red lamp, yellow wire yellow lamp, green wire green lamp) but the CMP rejected it. I was told the chair of CMP 5 was a traffic signal contractor from Louisiana.
A very similar proposal was made for the the 2014 NEC and accepted see 250.119. But you are exempt under the traffic management section of the WAC and can use the 19-1 cable
 

RichB

Senior Member
Location
Tacoma, Wa
Occupation
Electrician/Electrical Inspector
Thanks to don and tom for finding the references for me--

L&I= Labor and Industries--
 

K8MHZ

Senior Member
Location
Michigan. It's a beautiful peninsula, I've looked
Occupation
Electrician
I had a code proposal for the 2008 NEC to allow the use of IMSA 19-1 cable (red wire red lamp, yellow wire yellow lamp, green wire green lamp) but the CMP rejected it. I was told the chair of CMP 5 was a traffic signal contractor from Louisiana.
A very similar proposal was made for the the 2014 NEC and accepted see 250.119. But you are exempt under the traffic management section of the WAC and can use the 19-1 cable

I see that cable also uses black for grounded conductor?. The color combination in the 19-1 cables is very common, almost a standard in vehicle wiring systems but is totally 'backwards' for most NEC applications.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL
Why can't they use solid colors with stripes?

Instead of green for the green light, why not black (meaning hot) with a green stripe indicating hot for the green light?
 

RichB

Senior Member
Location
Tacoma, Wa
Occupation
Electrician/Electrical Inspector
I see that cable also uses black for grounded conductor?. The color combination in the 19-1 cables is very common, almost a standard in vehicle wiring systems but is totally 'backwards' for most NEC applications.

Ys you can--we spare off the black though and white is the grounded conductor.
 
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