LED light and driver, no can

Status
Not open for further replies.

masonc

Member
Location
Anguilla
A customer has provided us with a 4 inch LED downlight for new construction. It comes with a driver module. There is no can, JB, nothing.
It's like this - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MN0WEUY?psc=1

I know it is not UL listed but in our location this would not be an issue.
Ceiling will not be insulated. The drop from slab to ceiling is about 12 inches.

The issues I need to solve are
If I install a 4 inch box as a JB, can I put the driver in it or would that risk overheating?
Can the driver be replaced without tearing down the ceiling?
Is there a suitable housing that we can use to make this installation code compliant and safe?
Does the JB need to be accessible without tearing down the ceiling? How does anyone get to the JB through such as small opening?
In new work fixtures, how are they maintained if there is a problem?
 

cpinetree

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida

jumper

Senior Member
Several supply houses in our area are handling a similar product. Lotus LED lights

Spec sheet of one style: http://www.lotusledlights.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Spec-Sheet-LY6RCS-41K.pdf

Main Website: http://www.lotusledlights.com/

Feed the driver, then use the pigtail from the driver to the fixture.

We will be installing a few in the bosses house in the next few weeks. Concrete above and 1" space down to a tin ceiling. Let you know how it goes when they are powered up.

That seems to be UL listed, OP said his was not, therefore iwire would be correct.

410.6 Listing Required.
All luminaires, lampholders, and retrofit kits shall be listed
 

masonc

Member
Location
Anguilla
Several supply houses in our area are handling a similar product. Lotus LED lights

How are you going to house the driver? Just throw it above the ceiling?
Where do you make the connections from the feed to the loop and the fixture? Wouldn't it require a JB?
I can live with it not being UL Listed, but I need to figure out how we can make it a safe installation.
 

cpinetree

Senior Member
Location
SW Florida
How are you going to house the driver? Just throw it above the ceiling?
Where do you make the connections from the feed to the loop and the fixture? Wouldn't it require a JB?
I can live with it not being UL Listed, but I need to figure out how we can make it a safe installation.

In our case we will strap it to the ceiling.
The driver is the "J" box, you feed into and out of it, at least on the Lotus lights version.

And I guess if it was a drywall ceiling you would need to secure the driver to something - it is a code requirement that it be supported :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
A customer has provided us with a 4 inch LED downlight for new construction. It comes with a driver module. There is no can, JB, nothing.
It's like this - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MN0WEUY?psc=1

I know it is not UL listed but in our location this would not be an issue.
Ceiling will not be insulated. The drop from slab to ceiling is about 12 inches.

The issues I need to solve are
If I install a 4 inch box as a JB, can I put the driver in it or would that risk overheating?
Can the driver be replaced without tearing down the ceiling?
Is there a suitable housing that we can use to make this installation code compliant and safe?
Does the JB need to be accessible without tearing down the ceiling? How does anyone get to the JB through such as small opening?
In new work fixtures, how are they maintained if there is a problem?

Here is a similar light:

http://www.amazon.com/Dimmable-Retrofit-Recessed-Lighting-Fixture/dp/B00XKYR4EI

"No recessed can is required; simply cut a 4.3in to 4.6in opening in your ceiling, hard wire the lead wires to the junction box directly.
Then wire the light with the quick connector, push the spring retaining clips up and insert the lamp into the cut hole. Release the clips to finish the installation."

I'd just mount a 4" j-box so it can be accessed with the light removed, mount the driver to the framing.

Actually, I'd ditch the light you have and mount one of these or something similar instead:

http://www.affordablequalitylightin...aj1LgOd9SE5FlA-mxHz0TAh2xpUnAJBcPRxoCRnPw_wcB

with a 4" LED trim:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/EnviroLi...9-XpRvFb5TYLfixn25issRoCpTfw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

UL listed, integral j-box, damp rated, airtight/energy star listed, and dimmable. Solves all your problems for just $8 more than what you have, and you still need a $3 j-box and cover with your light.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I can live with it not being UL Listed, but I need to figure out how we can make it a safe installation.

I am curious, why would you want to do this?

What is the up side of you cobbling something together to save the customer money and the customer will expect you to stand behind for some time.

Then there is the chance something does go bad, you will be defenseless.

To each their own but to me there is no upside to doing this.
 

mgookin

Senior Member
Location
Fort Myers, FL

from Google:
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Anguilla[/COLOR]
British Overseas Territory




Anguilla, a British overseas territory in the Eastern Caribbean, comprises a small main island and several offshore islets. Its beaches range from long sandy stretches like Rendezvous Bay, overlooking neighboring Saint Martin island, to secluded coves reached by boat, such as at Little Bay. Protected areas include Big Spring, known for its prehistoric petroglyphs, and East End Pond, a wildlife conservation site.



Capital: The Valley


Dialing code: +1


Continent: North America


Status: British Overseas Territories


Currency: East Caribbean dollar


Population: 15,094 (2011)


Chief minister: Hubert Hughes



 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
I love the instructions

ry%3D400
 

masonc

Member
Location
Anguilla
from Google:
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.870588)]Anguilla[/COLOR]
British Overseas Territory




Anguilla,



This is not in Anguilla. NEC is strongly applied in Anguilla, there is a real inspectorate that is pretty strict on commercial installations. This job is in St. Kitts where there is no real code or inspections.
 

masonc

Member
Location
Anguilla
Actually, I'd ditch the light you have and mount one of these or something similar instead:

http://www.affordablequalitylightin...aj1LgOd9SE5FlA-mxHz0TAh2xpUnAJBcPRxoCRnPw_wcB

with a 4" LED trim:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/EnviroLi...9-XpRvFb5TYLfixn25issRoCpTfw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

UL listed, integral j-box, damp rated, airtight/energy star listed, and dimmable. Solves all your problems for just $8 more than what you have, and you still need a $3 j-box and cover with your light.

That's exactly what our supply house suggested. But the client is from China and has shipped us these fixtures.
 

masonc

Member
Location
Anguilla
I am curious, why would you want to do this?

What is the up side of you cobbling something together to save the customer money and the customer will expect you to stand behind for some time.

Then there is the chance something does go bad, you will be defenseless.

To each their own but to me there is no upside to doing this.

I am exploring all the options so I can make the case to the client to stop sending me non-UL equipment. I have a cost effective alternative from the US that is similar to what was suggested here. However, the Chinese client thinks they can save a lot by buying cheap crap in China. I need to show them the issues and a solution.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top