ASHRAE 90.1-2013, 8.4.3 Electrical Energy Monitoring

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8.4.3.1 Monitoring. Measurement devices shall be installed in new buildings to monitor the electrical energy use for each of the following separately:
a. Total electrical energy
b. HVAC systems
c. Interior lighting
d. Exterior lighting
e. Receptacle circuits

1. Does anyone actually comply with this mandatory provision?
2. Will someone explain how this is even possible without having a separate panelboard for each type of load listed?
 

gar

Senior Member
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
Occupation
EE
160809-1432 EDT

Your question #2.

If separate panelboards do not exist, then in the extreme you use one current transformer per output circuit.

More realistically from a specific panelboard on the output circuit side you put all like circuits thru a single current transformer for that type of circuit. If you have a three phase system, then you need a different CT for each phase and class of load.

Each current transformer output is combined with its associated voltage to get power. Then all the separate power values for a particular load class are added. Each of these power classes are integrated over some desired time period for energy.

Total power input to the system can be measured on its own and this compared to the total of all the individual classes to verify that the individual components are probably OK.

.
 

Ingenieur

Senior Member
Location
Earth
Applies to bldgs >25000 sq ft
if adopted as law

most comply
buy a ddc lighting control system
ahu's, etc that have mfg installed ddc systems
recept only panels with monitoring of the feeder
network into a pc with suitable app sw

Or a main switchboard
feeders to individual hvac equip or a dedicated hvac load center
feed interior ltg panel(s)
ext ltg panel(s)
recept panel(s)
with a monitoring system on each feeder

must store trend data for 36 months
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
8.4.3.1 Monitoring. Measurement devices shall be installed in new buildings to monitor the electrical energy use for each of the following separately:
a. Total electrical energy
b. HVAC systems
c. Interior lighting
d. Exterior lighting
e. Receptacle circuits

1. Does anyone actually comply with this mandatory provision?
2. Will someone explain how this is even possible without having a separate panelboard for each type of load listed?

Yes in CA this must be done when you meet the threshold of new SQFT. ask fultrotl

Yes separate panels is the way to go
 
gar, thank you for your response.

Actually, separate panels is not the way to go, at least not for my client. For a large commercial building, this essentially doubles or even triples the number of panelboards in the project if not more. Hence the question, "is there another way other than separate panels?" I could very easily end up with 6 or 7 panels where 2 would suffice (480V and 208V).

Does anyone else know of any manufacturers, systems, or ideas that comply with this code other than utilizing separate panels?
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
gar, thank you for your response.

Actually, separate panels is not the way to go, at least not for my client. For a large commercial building, this essentially doubles or even triples the number of panelboards in the project if not more. Hence the question, "is there another way other than separate panels?" I could very easily end up with 6 or 7 panels where 2 would suffice (480V and 208V).

Does anyone else know of any manufacturers, systems, or ideas that comply with this code other than utilizing separate panels?

I think you are making more of this than you think.
You can get split bus panels, and smaller subs.
The EE should have specified all this on the plans so you don't have to be the bad guy.
Wait till you need to have load shedding!
 

Fulthrotl

~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
Yes in CA this must be done when you meet the threshold of new SQFT. ask fultrotl

Yes separate panels is the way to go

fulthrotl isn't all that smart.....:dunce:

i know there is a threshold, but not what it is.
this falls more under LEED certification than
title 24 certification... i got a LEED AP a few years
back, and the stuff they poured into my head
has largely washed away by now. i never used it.

it's not uncommon to see triple panels with
provisioning for CT's to monitor specific loads.
and the cost, and push back in calif. has been
enormous, and i've heard that the requirement
is going away, but not when. it's not enforced
everywhere here, and is not an issue with T 24.

lighting, which is really all i deal with in this stuff,
has a title 24 requirement of a system to provide
demand response, load shedding, per POCO control,
above 10,000 sq. ft. it's a 15% reduction, evenly
across the entire occupancy, and there are some
caveats to be complied with.

honestly, even electrical engineers don't get some of
this. i currently have a building they are adding the
demand response function to, it made it all the way
thru plan check, to certification, and was discovered
that the EE left it off the plans.

about a $15,000 ooopsie, for the parts. labor is additional.
 

Sierrasparky

Senior Member
Location
USA
Occupation
Electrician ,contractor
Actually load segregation is mandated at increasing levels once the service reaches a certain KVA.

As far as CA removing demand response load shedding will still be in the mix for the new code Jan 2017.
Really don't see how this stuff is cost effective. Total cost is supposed to be a consideration to new energy codes. Yeah :happysad:
 
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