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Thread: above ground gas & diesel tanks

  1. #1
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    above ground gas & diesel tanks

    My brother in law had two 300 gallon, above ground tanks delivered to his landscaping business, one gas, one diesel. I have hooked several diesel tanks up and had them inspected ect (all went well) but this senario is different and I have questions: the two tanks are 12' from each other with the 7200 volt transformer feeding the building in the middle of the two, the gas tank is 4' from the service and meterbase coming into the metal pole building. Since they are this close, I think both are Class 1 wiring? he claims the oil company that delivered these are saying if it is less than 300 gallons, they are not!! (I guess 300 gallons of gas is less flammable than 1500??) both of these tanks have a 6' cord and plug on them, (thats how he wants them wired) also there is no spill protection, they are just sitting on the ground, not in any dike or double walled tank ect. Would both tanks have to be considered Class 1 and need an e stop circuit with a switch at the pump to brake the hot and neutral? I dont mind wiring the diesel tank, I wish the gas tank was not there!

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Bump to top. Sorry I can't answer the question....

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by saratoga1 View Post
    My brother in law had two 300 gallon, above ground tanks delivered to his landscaping business, one gas, one diesel. I have hooked several diesel tanks up and had them inspected ect (all went well) but this senario is different and I have questions: the two tanks are 12' from each other with the 7200 volt transformer feeding the building in the middle of the two, the gas tank is 4' from the service and meterbase coming into the metal pole building. Since they are this close, I think both are Class 1 wiring? he claims the oil company that delivered these are saying if it is less than 300 gallons, they are not!! (I guess 300 gallons of gas is less flammable than 1500??) both of these tanks have a 6' cord and plug on them, (thats how he wants them wired) also there is no spill protection, they are just sitting on the ground, not in any dike or double walled tank ect. Would both tanks have to be considered Class 1
    The oil company is probably commenting on the regulations for storage tanks (I hope). I agree with you that classified areas exist and need to be determined.
    and need an e stop circuit with a switch at the pump to brake the hot and neutral? I dont mind wiring the diesel tank, I wish the gas tank was not there!

    Thanks
    The service should be installed away from the gas tank and IMO, a 10' minimum area around the gas tank is classified (to the height of the tank) as per Table 515.3. I refer to this table because the table in 514 does not mention above ground tanks. I believe the argument could be made that Table 515.3 is not applicable because by definition I don't think this would be called a bulk storage area. I believe the NFPA has other documents (like 30A) that would require the classification of the area around the gas tank and gas pump (and I think that info would be similar to Table 515.3).

    It seems it would be easy to locate the tanks away from the service area (and transformer) and put sealoffs on a conduit that leaves the service panel and turns up (assuming underground conduit) at the tank. The estop could be located at the service panel (so long as it's not over 100' from the pump), that should help the price a little.
    Last edited by hardworkingstiff; 09-11-10 at 03:02 PM.
    Lou (wannabe economist)

    If you relentlessly pursue perfection, you will eventually catch excellence.

  4. #4
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    The whole problem with this scenario is that corded pumps on top of skid tanks have been used a lot without problems so everyone thinks it's crazy to hard wire these pumps with rigid conduit and explosion-proof fittings.

    It's a hard sell.

    Good luck.


    Edit: What will probably happen is someone will run some extension cords and no inspection will ever be obtained.
    Last edited by hardworkingstiff; 09-11-10 at 03:11 PM.
    Lou (wannabe economist)

    If you relentlessly pursue perfection, you will eventually catch excellence.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by saratoga1 View Post
    My brother in law had two 300 gallon, above ground tanks delivered to his landscaping business, one gas, one diesel. I have hooked several diesel tanks up and had them inspected ect (all went well) but this senario is different and I have questions: the two tanks are 12' from each other with the 7200 volt transformer feeding the building in the middle of the two, the gas tank is 4' from the service and meterbase coming into the metal pole building. Since they are this close, I think both are Class 1 wiring? he claims the oil company that delivered these are saying if it is less than 300 gallons, they are not!! (I guess 300 gallons of gas is less flammable than 1500??)

    The rules may by different where you are but in this area any bulk storage tanks (over 120 gallons) you must contact the state Fire Marshals Office and they will may a ruling on what needs to be done.

    To hook up tanks legally takes a bit of paperwork so I think many are kooked up without proper authorization.

    Contact your local Fire Marshal and see what he says.
    "A sight for sore eyes to the blind would be awful magestic"---Wax Fang

  6. #6
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    Basically, there are two NFPA Standards, outside the NEC, that apply: NFPA 30 and 30A. NFPA 30 applies to the storage and 30A applies to dispensing. They are referenced in the FPNs to the titles of Articles 514 and 515.

    Because diesel generally doesn’t require classification, it probably can be ignored from an electrical area classification perspective. It still will have some basic storage and retention requirements though. The gasoline storage may need electrical area classification attention – the gasoline dispensing definitely does. Without knowing the details of the installation it’s difficult to make a more definitive answer.
    "Bob"
    Robert B. Alexander, P.E.
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think the NEC says, but I am not sure you realize that what you read is not what it means." (Corollary to Charlie's Rule)

  7. #7
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    You can generally avoid the rquirements of 514 because of 514.3(A) which allows an area to be unclassified if the liquids handled have a flash point over 100 F. Diesel fuel number 2 has a flash point above 125 degrees farenheit.
    Rick Napier
    Inspector and Instructor

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICK NAPIER View Post
    You can generally avoid the rquirements of 514 because of 514.3(A) which allows an area to be unclassified if the liquids handled have a flash point over 100 F. Diesel fuel number 2 has a flash point above 125 degrees farenheit.
    That's true enough about diesel (I believe I already said that); however, the OP specifically mentions that gasoline is stored in the second tank. Art 514 will still apply to the gasoline portion of the installation since the tank appears to be for dispensing product.
    "Bob"
    Robert B. Alexander, P.E.
    "I know that you believe you understand what you think the NEC says, but I am not sure you realize that what you read is not what it means." (Corollary to Charlie's Rule)

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